Need help with the go part...

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Need help with the go part...

Postby Taxesdiver » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:48 pm

Been doing a lot of looking around and not sure where to get a good motor tans combo.
I see a lot of y'all are using centrifugal clutchs an single final gear.
I was wanting to use a belt driven 5 speed or six speed tans. But I ain't sure where to start looking.
I don't know much about motorcycle transmission. On top of that I don't know where to look for a motor.
Should I buy new or look for a used. Last thing the bike I build will most often then not have me an my wife.
So gearing an hp need to be enough to haul two middle size ppl.

HELP !! I need some body! HELP! Not just anybody!
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby gearhead1951 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:23 am

Pull them from a diesel car like Mouse has done !
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby gilburton » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:32 am

Don't think it's easy to find a small diesel car in the US?
If you want a manual transmission surely a Harley box would be the way to go?
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby gearhead1951 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:46 am

Ford , Chrysler and GM made several models diesel including a good few FWD ! The Ford Fiesta 1,6 is a good starting point !
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby gilburton » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:55 pm

I should think if there are any a VW might be more readily available??
Small diesels never caught on because gas was cheaper than diesel and also the strict emission laws of some states made them impossible to import.
There might be some Japanese ones about but with the current VW scandal there might be some around or in the scrap yards?
We'll have to wait on some of our US posters commenting?
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Need help with the go part...

Postby Stuart » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:10 pm

The shortage of diecent Diesel engines Stateside is a common problem. Personally I'd look at what others have used & read the follow ups to see any pit falls. Automotive is good because of the revs you'll get but engines not very common.
The Chinese pump engines aren't worth the trouble unless you're willing to tinker continuously. Original Yanmar's are better.
Might be some ideas worth copying on the School project pages as some are US based? http://www.dieselbike.net/Schoolbikes/Schoolbikes.htmj
Stuart. Smart Turbo Diesel Tiger, Honda NC700S, Ducati Hypermotard 821, Toyota Corolla 1.4 Turbo Diesel. Favouring MPG over MPH.
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby pietenpol2002 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:49 pm

The small diesel car market never really developed here in the states. And thus about your only option would be the old mechanical 1.6L VW which can still be found. But, I'm not aware of any conversions to motorcycles being belt drive. That said, you're looking at a bike of some considerable girth and weight (think outriggers) and a ground-up build.

SAM_2444.jpg


If you're wanting belt drive, 5/6 speed trans and mother on the back, you might want to consider coupling a 5 or 6 speed Harley box to a Kubota using a Harley belt drive. Not exactly a bolt together. But, as close as you'll get. Harley boxes are readily available as are belt drives. Type "Kubota" in the search box above and you'll get 36 pages of returns. And both OEM as well as after-market Kubota parts are easily obtained. You've got Kubota dealers scattered all over Texas. There's currently a 3 cylinder Kubota build happening right now near Dallas (albeit with a CVT).

The Kubota's are also relatively light. The 3 cylinder 900cc D902 weighs slightly less than an 80 cubic inch Shovelhead engine. So, one option would be to pick up a Harley roller with the trans intact and stuff Rudolph in the opening. You'll find a few examples of that when you do your search above.

And even then, you're embarking on no small undertaking.
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby Taxesdiver » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:04 pm

Thanks for all of y'all's input. Given me a lot to think about.
Unfortunately in the US diesel cars have not really caught on so cheap spare part are hard to come by.
I was looking to use a small yanmar or punsun. Kabota is a good way to go but I'm looking for something a little smaller than a three cylinder. But my brother-in-law does run a Kabota dealer so who knows what might happen.
But as for gear boxes is there anything other then a harly trans I can look in to?
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby coachgeo » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:55 am

Where in TX are you. Know a guy around Dallas area into Diesel bikes
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby gilburton » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:19 am

If you are looking at a twin cylinder mounted in the conventional way then any old Brit bike gearbox will do.
Possibly a "modern" Royal Enfield as you can still easily get spares.
You really need to see what sort of engine you can find and then decide if you want shaft drive or chain drive in the standard way.
Common shaft drive bikes are BMW/Ural but they require machining so a lot depends on your skills and available money.
A cruiser/chop style bike lends itself to easier conversion as they have large open frames.
Bikes are easy to find so the engine will be your starting point.
If you really want belt drive if you are talking about final drive I should think a harley system would be the way to go.
If you are talking about primary drive you can,of course,get Brit bike conversions or as has been done in the UK by Sam Brumby multiple V belts.
Generally when designing a diesel bike you only have a broad idea of what you want and what you can find and you modify your ideas as you go along.
If you are going to carry a passenger then a twin engine will be your starting point. Even then a twin will only give around 18/20 hp against a single at 10 hp.
The single will slog along at app 50 mph whereas the twin will be nearer 60 mph and hold it where the single will slow a little on hills.
All I can say is do all the research you can find on this site and the internet in general and try and form an idea based on availability of engine and your available skills.
There's not much that hasn't been done from superb engineereering to backyard specials.
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby Taxesdiver » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:52 am

coachgeo wrote:Where in TX are you. Know a guy around Dallas area into Diesel bikes

I'm down in San Antonio. So I talked to my brother in law that works for a kubota dealer down here. his got an 3 cylinder with a bad head and needs a rod but after I fix that is should be a good motor. So now I got to figure out how to get power to the wheel .
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby gilburton » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:01 pm

Well if you go the shaft drive route just remember that the gear ratios will not suit a diesel.
It will work but your top speed will be lower due to the lower revving engine.
Plenty of large cruisers with shaft drive to choose from so no problem there as long as you can get an adapter made up.
There is a cx500 on youtube with a cvt transmission mounted sideways if that interests you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnrX5DSYhhw
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby Taxesdiver » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:54 pm

gilburton wrote:Well if you go the shaft drive route just remember that the gear ratios will not suit a diesel.
It will work but your top speed will be lower due to the lower revving engine.
Plenty of large cruisers with shaft drive to choose from so no problem there as long as you can get an adapter made up.
There is a cx500 on youtube with a cvt transmission mounted sideways if that interests you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnrX5DSYhhw


Hey thanks for the vid that's a really cool way of doing that opened a lot of ideas for me.
Any other vids or pic out there are welcome I'm a visual kinda guy need to see to get it .
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby gilburton » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:21 pm

Just do a youtube search for diesel bike there are plenty of examples on there.
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby pietenpol2002 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:30 pm

If you are looking at a twin cylinder


The challenge with a twin is that we don't have many options here in the states. The Lombardini and Ruggerini twins of sufficient power are scarce and expensive. The only other option would be the Kubota twins which are limited to about 16 hp with the D602.

So I talked to my brother in law that works for a kubota dealer down here. his got an 3 cylinder with a bad head and needs a rod


Do check which model he's talking about as some models of the triples can run well over 400 lbs. The D722 is a good choice being light, quite plentiful and capable of up to 20 hp.
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Re: Need help with the go part...

Postby coachgeo » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:24 pm

Being in need of Kubota info, started hanging out on a Kubota Tractor forum. Even ended up buying on older Kubota Tractor for maintaining a 1/4 mile long private easement. Ended up a moderator on that forum. Sooo... long story short... If you need kubota engine info. Stop in. orangtractortalks.com

PS- main interest is tractors but a few guys in there know kubota Industrial engines about as well as they do tractor engines so be patient.
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