Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

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Dougy
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Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Thu May 12, 2011 10:12 am

I've got here a Italian SXT 125 Harley Davidson rolling chassis and a Yanmar 300cc diesal complete with electrics and a CVT torq converter...A plan is starting to form :) I am building the dieselbike for my lil girl Freya, she's only five but wanted a Harley !.....
My Mrs modeling Freyas new bike.
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Thu May 12, 2011 10:19 am

Comet type torque converter and a 300cc Yanmar Cagiva which dont fit together yet due to a redundant engine casting which had to go...
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Thu May 12, 2011 10:27 am

I had to chop out a lug, and remove about 5mm or so from the torque converters jack shaft to get it to fit square onto the crankcases, I also had to chop about 10mm of the speed governer but it still works fine :)
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Thu May 12, 2011 10:38 am

Thats where I am up to now, the torque converter sits nice an square on the crankcases and the speed governer moves free, What I have to do now is have a sit down and think about fitting it in the frame, the biggest problem I can think of right now is that the tiny little sprocket on the TC, when the chain goes around this will it fowl the swing arm ? I'm thinking probably.... maybee I can add a second sprocket to guide the chain down and away from the front sprocket therfore missing the swingarm :idea: :idea: :idea:
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coachgeo
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesal Project

Post by coachgeo » Thu May 12, 2011 7:07 pm

Is that CVT off of a scooter?

Have you done the math on the ratio's to see if it sits in the range you need?

Looks real interesing!!

What is your plans for the bike, road/offroad use wise?

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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Fri May 13, 2011 12:02 am

Hi Coachgeo, The CVTs not off a scooter but based on the comet TAV2, its aledgedley made in the USA and is packaged up that way but I suspect its from China !
Regarding ratios I didnt even think about them :oops: I'm going to build it Tommy Cooper style :) ie 'bike-engine, engine-bike haha just like that' (I dont know if that joke will travel ahem, if it does'nt I'll get me coat :( ) I'm just going to throw it all together and see what happens :shock:, I just read the bumf off the advert when I bought it and it says " the TC2 instantaneously shifts ratios based upon RPM and load requirements, then finally the high performance overdrive engages for maximum speed", But I guess I can also alter the back sprocket to good effect later on, I'm not an engineer and defo no good at mathamatics, how would you work it out ?
As for it being interesting, thanks, Its defo keeping me busy and at the minute 75% of my brain power is devoted to figuring out correct sprocket positions (enough to light a small candle) :idea:
Its going to be used on road mostly, but saying that depends on how fast it goes ! at the moment if it does 30 MPH I'll be made up :) .
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Sat May 14, 2011 6:51 pm

Had to buy a load of stuff yesterday to help with the build, cost £ssss but I just cant wait to get stuck in so the kids shoes will just have to wait !
I also took off the tank and exhaust and it looks a bit more like a motorbike engine than it did yesterday :D .
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesal Project

Post by coachgeo » Sat May 14, 2011 8:05 pm

see you got a pipe bender. BUILD WITH "TUBE" never pipe. Be aware the dies size of pipe is different than what you need to match the size of a "tube". Have heard of folk taking sheet metal or the likes to build up space around a tube so it sits in a pipe die better. Experiment some first. Depending on how much bend; wrong size die will flatten and or kink a tube. Flat or kinks will weaken tube opening it up to stress/vibration fractures.

Call whom you got CVT from. Tell them HP and RPM range of engine and sprocket size you have for rear. They may be able to work out for you the best combination of CVT pullys to match. If different than what you have they may swap what you got for the right stuff. You may still have to go to a different sprocket on one end or the other. So knowing that search in here for suggestions on generic available sprocket sizes matching the shafts (keyed or tapered?) etc. cause the CVT shop may need to know the options available to you.

Others in here know the math behind all this better than I. They might chime in here if you let them know what size your jackshaft is and what is available tooth counts for your Harley rear sprocket.

Curtis in Texas
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesal Project

Post by Curtis in Texas » Sun May 15, 2011 3:13 am

Coach, I'm still here. If you need to do some mandrel bends in that tubing let me know.
No flat curves!
I have the JD2'd with al the popular dies.
Been working on a few bike conversions and have gotten real good at bending the lower frame tubes.
Unfortunitly I haven't started on the Diesel project yet, but have a friend in Virginia that is going to send me a KLR soon to put a 13 HP diesel in.

Rebuilding my KLR at the moment bt always have time to work in a friend.

Curtis J
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Sun May 15, 2011 10:19 pm

Thanks Coachgeo, I'll bear it in mind about the CVT ratios but I had a little bit of trouble contacting them once (six months)that ones a looooong story I wont bore you with but I dont think I be contacting them again soon ! The pipe v tube is a long standing debate over here too.

I'm hopefull to get going again soon as I've got a big order of stuff coming from EBAY this week- stainless nuts & bolts, cutting and grinding discs and a 21st century welding mask ! I think I'll also get some high tensile bolts for the CVT :idea: Hurry up posty :D
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Mon May 16, 2011 10:07 pm

Got a bit bored of waiting for stuff to arrive from EBAY so decided to press on and chop the frame out of the way so's I could fit the engine in and see what it looked like :) .
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Mon May 16, 2011 10:17 pm

I put the engine in and kind of trued it up to approx where its going to live by clamping a straight edge from the back to the front sprocket.
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Mon May 16, 2011 10:44 pm

I've put the CVT cover on loose and it does look more balanced although I imagine it will be slightly heavier on the right side.
It is a quite exiting part of the build this, I imagine it will go a lot slower after this as it all gets trued up and welded properly, I imagine at this stage people would have already decided to rubber mount it but I've decided not to.
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesal Project

Post by coachgeo » Thu May 19, 2011 9:26 pm

you do NOT have to align the CVT with the rear sprocket if you use a jackshaft. Balance the combo of the engine/CVT in the frame. Mount CVT with Jackshaft off the back side. Make Jackshaft as long east-west as needed with bearings to spin in. (pillow blocks) Align a chain sprocket fixed to the jackshaft with the rear axil's chain sprocket .

Now both your CVT Pully's are aligned as needed and your two chain sprockets are aligned as needed... but CVT and Chain sprockets NOT aligned cause they do not have to be.

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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesal Project

Post by balboa_71 » Sun May 22, 2011 7:55 pm

Dougy,
After exhaustive study, and years of minibike, electric bicycle work, here is what I've found for gear ratios for both single speed and torque converter equipped bikes: 6 to 1 total reduction. If you run a 10 tooth jack shaft sprocket, go with a 60 tooth rear sprocket, for a single speed application. I geared my Kamazuki @ 15 and 72 teeth, which has been acceptable, having a torque converter with the reduction ratio offered with the Comet 500 unit(s). My bike is a tad sluggish off the line, but bike and rider weight is 650 lbs.. Over all performance is good for using a 10 hp engine. In addition, I went with a #50 chain and sprockets to have big, large diameter sprockets so the chain would not have to wrap tight on the counter shaft sprocket. The trade off is increased friction, weight, cost, and clearance needed to put all this together into a nice neat package. My bikes secondary drive looks like something off a concrete mixer, but it will last for years of use. As for your jack shaft sprocket fouling the swing arm, the only solution is to go with a nice big diameter sprocket to get clearance. The Japanese do this all the time with their bikes. Their sprockets are huge, most approaching 3" in diameter....this is a lesson I learned years ago :lol:
The other thing I learned was to get a torque converter drive unit that will engage at 1,300 to 1,400 rpm, because these small diesel engines make torque down low, so if you engage at say, 2,200 rpm (normal drive unit engagement speed), you will be past your engines peak torque on the curve chart, not to mention that you will run out of rpm at 3,600/4,000 rpm, depending on your governors settings. Having 800/900 more useful rpm of engagement is a plus when it comes to drive ability.

Cris
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1980 GS850 converted to 10hp diesel clone power.
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville

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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Sun May 22, 2011 7:58 pm

Thanks for your post Coachgeo it was helpfull in making my decision, as I said allready I'm not an engineer, I'm not afraid of trying different ways of building however and I gave it serious consideration, but my mantra since the start (and in life in general) is keep it simple so I've gone for the easiest way an simply offset the engine, its got its pros an cons the worst of which is weight distrabution but in the scheme of things its not that bad because its only a small engine, but the best is, with the engine offset I the petrol tank still fits without cutting the base out, which has saved a ton of time, which is nice :) .
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesal Project

Post by Curtis in Texas » Sun May 22, 2011 8:34 pm

Great info guys.
Balboa 71 when you guys get together let me know if you don't mind.
I live between you and Coach and your welcome to come here to my Motorcycle/ 4X4 shop if you want to meet up.
That way I can look over your bikes. Or maybe I can ride down an get a look at yours when you have time!
My Grandkids live on the North side of Fort Worth so I'm down that way a lot.

I have two diesel conversion in the works as soon as I finish the Kawaski Versey engine in the KLR Project I'm working on now.
One of the diesels involves the Harley Ultima Tranmission I bought from Coach last year and a Diahatsu 850cc 3cly engine I have.
The other is a 13 HP WInsun KLR Diesel for a friend in W Virgina. He wants to use a CV Tranny on his too.

Dougy, I am following your build as close as I can.
Wish I lived closer to you, as I love fabricating stuff that's not supposed to work together.
Keep the pictures coming.
Trying not to be too much of a pest, but definitly studying your project.

Maybe Coach will let me build on his some... :mrgreen:

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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesal Project

Post by balboa_71 » Sun May 22, 2011 8:55 pm

Curtis,
I remember talking to you back in '06/'07 when I had my KLR. I think both of us were on the KLR forum or something like that...please don't quote me on that one :oops:
Sure, I'd be happy to get together with you anytime to talk diesel conversions and/or bikes in general. Right now I'm trying to get my Kubota OC95 sorted out and get it installed in my Kamazuki frame before doing too much road travel. However, if that does not work out, I'll get 'er out on the road anyways.....hopefully this will be done by the middle of next month. I want to have my Kubota up and running by the end of June so I can get 5 months of use before the end of the year.
As I remember, you have a real nice shop up at your place and it was full of KLR's and other riders needing help with KLR issues including the "doohicky" (did I get that right)? I sold my KLR after I broke my shoulder while trying to park it in an off camber situation next to my house where the kick stand sunk into some soft dirt in my yard and I fell against the house almost breaking my neck from hitting it against the house, but rather breaking my shoulder against a loose brick on the ground :oops: :oops: .... I can't tell you how much that cost me in pain and suffering.... The bike would unload its suspension by a good 4 to 5 inches while I'd attempt to dismount, and this day I picked a bad spot to do just that. No more tall bikes for me after that, just getting too old and heavy for gymnastics and jumping through hoops, etc.. :roll:

Let us know how your projects unfold....

Cris
1980 GS850 converted to 10hp diesel clone power.
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville

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Dougy
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Sun May 22, 2011 9:31 pm

Thanks for the kind words Curtis, and chime in whenever you want its just good to know theres someone out there :) !

I've had a good day in the shed today and decided to put the engine on a plate, this way I can sink it low down in the frame and get correct sprocket alianment, I also took off the footpegs at this time as they where getting in the way, I'll figure somewhere to put them later in the build.
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Sun May 22, 2011 9:36 pm

Sprocket alianment wasnt too bad to do, when I got it right I marked it out then bolted the engine in place, I then wrapped some frame around it and tacked it all in place.
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Sun May 22, 2011 9:46 pm

I've got loads to do before the frame is finished, I've got the top bracket to make and its all got to be braced up, but first I've got to get it out of the shed and check its all still true, if it is I'll weld it all up solid, I'm loving this part of the project, seeing it come together is very satisfing :) .
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Sun May 22, 2011 9:55 pm

:) Finished for the night, its been a long day working on the bike and I'm just sitting in the shed with it and having a few beers, I have the feeling its all going to easy and I've forgot something big, but I'll sleep on it and play it by ear..... :)
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesal Project

Post by Curtis in Texas » Sun May 22, 2011 10:28 pm

Thanks Guys!
Chris, I'm glad to hear you've been out here.
We don't do too many Tech Days out here much anymore.
Sorry I can't put a face to your name. Too many faces have come through here or I'm getting old too!
I think we must have gotten everybody's KLR's done. I still get one or two guys now, but never like that 30 we had the day you were out here.
A couple of Doo HIckeys and 685 kits every so often. An occasional custom rack and such.
I retired from the day job 2 years ago and now work out back for S&G's.

I'd love to get together with you again and see your bike.
I there is anything I can do to help, let me know.
I'm not without skills.

Here's my current project I'm on right now. Here is a shot of the lower frame tubes I made for that engine.
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The guy who owns this is a member here too.
I'm kinda breaking our secrecy agreement by posting this picture on our build, so I won't post anymore on it.
But, I want you guys to know that when I offer to help I'm serious if you need it.


Dougy, keep up the good work. Man you are getting this together fast.

Curtis
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Tue May 24, 2011 10:20 pm

Tonight I've been on the lathe ( first time) and knocked up a couple of spacers to go through the frame to help fix the top engine bracket :D I'm finding that you can bend, cut, tack an wrap up the engine cradel in two hours but making two tiny little tubes you'll never see takes all night :? progress is progress though....
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Thu May 26, 2011 10:00 pm

I tacked in two more down tubes tonight, thats three in total and probably overkill but I quite like it :) , I'm off to my local bike shop tommorow with my CVT sprocket and the rear wheel sprocket to see if I can wrap the same chain around them :?: :?: :?: Otherwise I'm buggerd for an easy fix and will have to put me thinking cap on again :roll:
I was really making progress tonight but whilst grinding the front tubes to fit I had quite a big trouser fire :oops: and have decided to call it a night in the interests of health an safety :!:
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:14 pm

I'm proper skint at the mo so Im doing stuff that does'nt cost anything !
Got the bike into work and gave it a good sandblasting, then with the stubborn paint I used paint stripper then finished of with a nice high power jetwash :), I've not sandblasted metal before and was amazed how good its brought up my yolks :) when I take my forks apart to have them re-chromed I think I'll blast the sliders, (my job is to remove grafitti from brick or concrete walls by sandblast) I also welded in a couple more struts on the bash plate and the frame was so clean I can put the earth clamp anywhere !
I've also decided to uprate the CVT's sprocket, it was basically made to take a bicycle chain so I'm having a new one made to take a beefier chain and also upping it from ten to 13 teeth.

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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:15 pm

For anyone using a similar engine setup I've used one half of a aluminium bicycle brake arm to use as the throttle set up, Its allready fitted with a handy stop for the cable outer and generally looks made for the job. I'll post if it works OK ! I Intend to slow down a bit now and build it all up in the rough and test the bike with its new engine sprocket ( when it arrives :roll: ) if it works ok Its just money I need really but I'll cross that bridge when (if) I sort the transmission :)
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesal Project

Post by caddyman » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:20 pm

Looking good Dougy, following this build with interest mate, ive read a few differant threads on the "other forum" and i think im gona go with the ford 1.8 lump, due to easy availability.......if its do able?...........want to use everyday as im getting fed up with fuel prices and my er5 only does 50ish mpg, so the hunt is on for bits :shock:
cheers chris

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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:32 pm

I've been waiting patiently for my engine sprocket for well over a week now so I called the chap up...." Ohhh I havent even started it yet I've been fishing "

At least he never gave me a load of bull ! Anyway aparently I'm next on the list..... :D

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ImageIn the meantime theres sod all I can do really because before I do anymore I need to know if it actually goes / works ! But in the meantime I found a seat for it on EBAY so I snapped it up, I really dont like the right side profile of this engine and have decided fitting a ram air scoop, I'm going to try a few designs and maybee put in a bit of fluting ?
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Re: Hardley a Davidson diesel Project

Post by Dougy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:47 pm

I've just been looking at balboas build, he has a glow plug for cold starting, I had a look at my manual but it says nothing about cold starting a Yanmar L70, anyone here help with that one :? :?:
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