Ural-Daihatsu

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Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:57 pm

I finally got around to posting photos from my Daihatsu-Ural bike. There have been a few on here, so I posted them on the UK Cossack Club site:

http://www.russianbike.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=892

I hope someone finds something of interest! Bike is laid up at the moment while I get around to stopping it leaking diesel everywhere - steady progress, since I am no longer in work. I think that's a good thing. Big Busmar sidecar project is now coming along...I'll have to take some photos of that too.

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by alexanderfoti » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:00 pm

Excellent! looking really good.

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by henneberg » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:59 am

Nice build,
looking to see more of the process going on, and the final result :)
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:07 am

I should have been more clear - it's the photos which have taken me a long time, not the bike! I started with photo 1 (the car) when the little girl on the bike was just born. She's now 8 1/2...

As for 'end result'...there never is one, is there! The one with my girl is about as shiny and clean as it has ever been, but since it has covered a lot of miles and is now covered in diesel scum. You'll see from the last one (split in two) that I now have a 2LS hydraulic front drum brake (adapted from Morris 1000) which means it stops a bit better, but still a bit risky.

Current project is just to stop it leaking fuel, but I am also doing up a big Busmar sidecar which is slowing me down a lot (and will slow me down even more once I attach it). After that, I have to fit Dnepr gearbox I have been building - because Ukrainians, unlike Russians, allow you to play with 3rd gear ratio as well as 4th gear. So I have bought 1:1 top gear (as currently fitted in Ural box) for Dnepr item, and ground up the old 4th pair so they fit as new 3rd pair, meaning big jump will be 2-3, not 3-4. With sidecar, I expect this to be useful, and it also has a reverse. But box is 1/2" longer, so frame will need a little messing with - not as hard as it might be, since it comes in two.

After that...I have been collecting things to make a leading link front end. I have R75 19" spoked wheel, and disks from Z650 which will take a lot of messing to fit. But now I have no job, I have the time, but not the money, so messing it is (unless anyone has a Kawasaki 19" spoked front wheel, of course :) ). Wife is still at work, so housework must also be prioritised to maintain domestic harmony / a roof over my head :) .

Busmar is going on petrol Ural to start with. Because these bikes kick-start 'out' from the LHS, they're a bugger with a left-hand sidecar - I want my kids in the kerb, not middle of road. So I have made chain-based conversion to move kickstart to RHS, which also works but is not quite at 'end result' stage either. I hope it will be robust enough to cope with BIG KICK needed to start Daihatsu, in the future.

Well, it's better than Jeremey Kyle, but then, what isn't.

cheers

Mark

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by Stuart » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:00 am

To save this thread as is I'll post my engine shots to Engine forum & have split my query away from here :)

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by Curtis in Texas » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:00 pm

Reminds me of some of my projects i started for myself. Business comes in the door and they sit in the back of the shop waiting. Some have been waiting 20 years.
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:27 pm

OK, I guess it's time to post the odd progress shot of how things are coming along, now I know the spare engine is a runner. Here's where I'm up to. Dnepr box is in, frame is stretched (another 18mm) as a result. Dnepr kick starts turn out to be different to Ural ones (the cotter is the same but locates on the kick start shaft at a much shallower angle at rest - say 30 deg to horizontal - than Ural ones, where the cotter is at 60-70deg to horizontal with everything at rest) so I ended up cutting the kick start lever and bending it down by 30-40 deg. Hope my welding is up to it. I also made a stainless kick start cotter, as I seem to chew up mild steel ones with boring regularity. I hope it doesn't wear the (hard) shaft on which it locates.
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:13 pm

here's a funny thing - on this inj pump there's a spring-loaded control poking out the side which is not the throttle, but which has a lever on it to take a cable / nipple. On the old engine / pump - nothing. On starting, the new engine ran really lumpy / smoky, so I twiddled this lever and it cleaned up lovely. What is it? It seems to behave a bit like a choke on a petrol engine.

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by gilburton » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:40 am

Just a guess but on old truck engines you had to manually engage a "cold start lever" which automatically clicked off when started a bit like a decompressor.
It was ony used on really cold days and enrichened the fuel ratio or altered the timing just for starting.
Possibly you were correct in assuming it was like a choke. If your engine starts without it just lock it off.
I think early VW diesels had something similar??

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by Bert in Weesp » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:20 am

To be certain if your pump is similar to my Daihatsu car pump I'll need a picture of it.

I don't recall my '92 car engine having a something to improve cold start like the old vw's had.
But I admit that on the áround '86 TD engine that's currently in my garage waiting for some project ( probably will not fit in a CBX 750 F2 frame ) at the bottom of the injection pump is a something with 2 springs on it of which I have absolutely no clue what it is, maybe a cold start thing, don't recall having that on my car engine.

The only thing that was in my car was behind the steering wheel a choke symbol button that I used on cold start, it increased cold RPM by a couple of 100 to make it run smoothly.
Actuation of this worked via an electric valve and a vacuum controlled actuator, this pressed slightly against the normal throttle

Bert.

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:51 pm

Sounds like we have a similar experience then Bert - the thing you describe as absent in your car, and present (and we don't know what it is) on your spare engine, is the same as was not in my old one but now is on my new engine. Well, it seems to work like a choke, for what that is worth!

I threw away a whole bunch of actuators from my inj pump on the advice of a German guy who appears to have been amongst the first to use these engines in a bike - now you tell me in your last post what at least one of them did! I must say the old engine seemed to (kick) start just fine without this new addition, but this one seems to need it turned, or it coughs and smokes. Oh well, perhaps I can modify an MZ choke lever to work it from the handlebar, if this lever has enough travel.

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by gilburton » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:57 pm

Maybe it's only certain markets??

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=173745

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:22 am

Maybe the solenoid Bert refers to was a cheap way to remove some complexity from the earlier type of injector pump.

Either way, my old engine (with no cold start devices at all, and a Ural flywheel with much less rotational inertia than the car type) kick-starts and ticks over fine with the temp down at about freezing. I guess it would have to be really cold before it would need extra help.

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:51 pm

Well, it all works - how about that. I made it to the MOT man on Sat, but he wasn't there so back tomorrow. Dnepr box works well - reverse is useful to get the lump out of my restricted access at the side of the house - and the dodge of using the original 4th gear pair (ground up a bit) as third, with a 1:1 top set, seems to be more flexible than the Ural box with 1:1 4th and standard 1,2,3. I haven't been able to really give it any stick yet, and turbo pressure is down - at the least the waste gate leaks a bit, and I may put the turbo on from the other engine before trying to work on this one. No sign of coolant pressure, which was the reason to retire / dismantle the last engine - will post more here when I get to work on it.

A few posts up I mentioned welding the kickstart, which broke off when I tried to leave the MOT station. After my leg partly recovered (knee is still tender!) and the audience had stopped laughing, they pushed me up and down the lane until it fired. Then after a very carefully-prepared re-weld in two passes with lots of current to fill a nice deep mitre cut out between the two parts, I realised (despite seeing this coming) I'd got the angle wrong again. Oh well, it starts easily, despite only getting <1/4 rev of useful travel out of the lever. I think the Dnepr gearbox kickstart may be higher geared than on a Ural - I can stand on it for a while before it moves, and it takes an enthusiastic jump / kick to swing it over (see above!).

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by touchwoodsden » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:08 am

Finished photos Mark?
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by Bert in Weesp » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:16 am

If the waste gate leaks a bit by means of little play on the pivot point ( like it did on my charade ) = easy to solve by adding a little spring to pull the play to 1 side. This increased my plenum pressure from almost 0.6 to 0.7 bar. Adding a slightly stronger spring, let's say 2 kgf increases pressure to 1.0 bar. Goes like a rocket...... but almost as long as too till headgasket blows.

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:31 pm

I think all is not well with this turbo - the waste gate is now wired closed all the time, but the plenum pressure still only gets up to about 10psi (0.7 bar). I guess I may have to swap it and see - I may have a leak somewhere else, but changing the turbo is perhaps the easiest way to find out.

Photos will follow when ebay send me a 'new' camera - last one just died, but at least they are cheap now that normal people use a phone!

Front wheel / forks try to violently part company at full speed - heavy vibes, man, it always did this. I have new taper roller headstock bearings to fit, and then perhaps when I fit the new front tyre I'll try to get the wheel balanced. Being a Ural wheel it probably is not round, but we'll see - I could clock it and use my best rim on the front.

I'm also fed up with the deafening racket of my open-air Ural clutch. I'll try to wrap my gearbox-attaching 'legs' with something - roofing lead would be best for noise and easy to form, but this thing is already rather heavy!

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:29 pm

OK, we have an MOT again. Here are some pics from today:
Attachments
P1010044small.jpg
Rather OTT home-made waste-gate linkage - no more rattle.
P1010045small.jpg
Dnepr box is in and mods seem to work. Exhaust exits on this side now, to give some room for sidecar fittings on the left. Thin steel around clutch basket calms the noise but only a little. MZ choke lever just visible top right controls cold start device, which appears to alter injection timing a little.
P1010041small.jpg
From the right...
P1010042small.jpg
...and from the left.

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:42 am

bum - drive donut death. The old Russian rubber donut in the final drive had been there for years, and looked really nasty (see pic) - but still worked. It was hardened and looked cracked. The new one seemed softer, and lasted a week.

This failed just after using reverse (not for the first time), and without the passenger footpegs fitted which have bump-stops which supposedly limit swing arm outward travel. But shockers seem to limit this travel too - so could rear suspension have 'climbed' sufficiently in reverse to mis-align the drive donut? (swing arm squats down under forward drive, and climbs in reverse).

This bike is fitted with 3.2:1 (very) high ratio crown and pinion set, which amplifies the torque impedance (I don't know the right phrase for that) into which the drive shaft and components have to operate. But the old rubber donut lasted, albeit looking ill, for years.

Well, I have a Polish fibre-reinforced donut on order, so lets see if it is any good.
Attachments
P4130004small.jpg
New donut - gearbox side
P4130003small.jpg
New donut - rear wheel side.
P2290030small.jpg
Old donut. Did not inspire confidence, but...worked.

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by Tetronator » Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:35 am

That's the fourth one I've seen gone to bits, I'm working on removing the entire thing from my build.

Sticking with an direct drive using an universal joint.
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by mark_in_manchester » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:54 am

From memory, there's something odd about a UJ which is different to a CV joint. That is, although one rev in = one rev out (obviously!), depending on the angle made by the two shafts then I don't think the instantaneous shaft speed is the same on both sides of a UJ - it fluctuates above and below a mean - though over the course of one rev it averages out to the same rpm. By contrast I _think_ a CV joint is constant (angular) velocity.

If I'm right then the donut is partly in there to soak up the torsional vibes put in by this twice--per-rev changing velocity factor. I guess (thinking about the drive shaft on a RWD car) then appropriate pairing of two UJs set at the correct relative angle on a shaft may soak up those forces - do you know how this is done?

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by Tamber » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:07 pm

Off the top of my head, you put the UJs at each end of the shaft out of phase by 90 degrees.

Ah! Explains it better than I can. http://jniolon.clubfte.com/drivelinepha ... asing.html :)
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by Tetronator » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:16 pm

I might just mean universal joint... (English is not my native language, I might have confused the two). The one I'm using is from an Honda NTV650 or maybe BMW. (Still working on it).
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by sbrumby » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:05 pm

In terms of transmitting power a UJ will work, they just must not be set in a permanent straight line as the needle rollers will not move and spread the grease, this wont be a problem on a swinging arm as its always on the move.
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by UAofE » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:44 pm

sbrumby wrote:they just must not be set in a permanent straight line as the needle rollers will not move and spread the grease
That is wrong. Mercedes, BMW and Chrysler have done this for decades having a straight driveline with a fixed transmission and differential position. They use a single sealed (non-greasable) u-joint in the center to compensate for slight engine/transmission movement and chassis flexing.
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by gearhead1951 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:53 am

Any engineer will tell you that cardan (universal) joints must be installed with enough of an angle so that the needle rollers can travel at least 1 1/2 times their circumference or else they will wear themselves a groove in the outer race and no longer be bearings ! That is called "brinelling" and can create a vibration in your drive train that will drive you buggy !

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by UAofE » Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:58 pm

In the above example I gave, even my 34 year old sealed u-joint simply has a position where it "settles" back if moved from outside of its normal position.
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by gearhead1951 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:23 pm

Meaning that the engineers used a cardan joint where they could have made use of a simple Flex flange and the needle bearings have "seated" themselves so deeply that these cardan joints are effectively useless for their original purpose !

If placed in a system where they MUST deal with any angularity they WILL fail and spectacularly so !

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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by touchwoodsden » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:00 pm

But isn’t a Cardan joint in effect 2 universal joints in the same chunk of metal, to allow not just for the bend of the shaft but a slight misalignment? Or in the case of a swinging arm, where the swinging arm pivot is not exactly in the centre of the joint.
If the swinging arm pivot is not exactly in the centre of the joint, the shaft will have to move slightly on the splines at each end which is where I understand the problem comes with BMW K100 splines where they fit into the final drive because they wear quite dramatically if they are not greased with some special grease (Honda spec Molly which cost an arm and a leg and a kidney because the BMW spec grease is about as much use as my cats faeces.)
Mot Guzzis use Cardan joints certainly on the Californians.
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Re: Ural-Daihatsu

Post by gearhead1951 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:02 am

You are thinking of a DOUBLE cardan joint ( AKA constant velocity joint) ! The proper name for what we all call a universal is cardan after the inventor !

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