yanclone in to something build?

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bigfrankfromwhitby
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yanclone in to something build?

Post by bigfrankfromwhitby » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:55 pm

hi every one. i'v been browsing this forum for a couple of years now and been wanting to build a bike ever since i found it. i have now decided to go ahead with it, i have just purchased this yanclone generator locally and plan to use the engine
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i have not yet decided on what bike to use or what transmission but i do have a bsa c10 gearbox but no clutch, not sure about using it tho. i am quite interested in using a bike witch had a longitudinal mounted engine like a ural or bmw but i'll just see what comes available. Anyway I have a couple of questions to ask if you guys could help me out. 1. My engine seems to have a tapered shaft, is this common and what do people use to mount pullys,sprockets etc. 2. I have seen a few different methods of mounting a throttle cable linkage but is my fuel pump compatible and would i be able to use the full rev range. cheers in advance for any help. i have searched the forum plenty for answers but not found many answers.
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sbrumby
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by sbrumby » Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:23 pm

Usually in a generator situation there is a long bolt that pulls the generator onto the engines taper. If the generator is scrap cut 6" off the shaft, This will then give you a parallel shaft to use taperlock pulleys or cogs on.
Sam

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by bigfrankfromwhitby » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:23 pm

Yea thats along the lines of what I was thinking. I wasn't sure if there was any auxiliary pulls or anything out there with the same taper on it

gilburton
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by gilburton » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:32 pm

If you scroll down this link you will find a pic of a tapered shaft with a sprocket fixed to the parallel part of the shaft.
It'll be a 25mm or 1" bush required.
http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/view ... 244#p13244
Just as a matter of interest the C10 3 speed box will be plenty good enough as the torque spread will cover the ratios.
What is the engine model you are using??
It should say on the sticker on the fan cowling??
Last edited by gilburton on Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

pietenpol2002
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by pietenpol2002 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:51 pm

Most of those taper cranks have just over 1.5 inches of straight straight shaft until it begins to taper as shown in the post above. That's enough material to mount a keyless bush (as there's no keyway), but precludes the use of most CVTs. The ones I have are 26 mm. Which is a very odd size. And for which keyless bushes are not readily avialable. I consulted with the bush manufacturer who recommended simply honing a 1" bushing (25.4 mm) on out to 26 mm. Took a while though.

Or it's likely the one below would have sufficient range to capture 26 mm. Better yet would be if you could find a 26 mm somewhere in the UK.

http://tinyurl.com/lu2nbd6

Your other option would be to go with a straight shaft crank. The L90 below is same as the L100, is NOS OEM Yanmar and cheaper than some of the Chinese knockoffs cranks.

http://tinyurl.com/okomxe2
Ron
Goshen, IN USA

gilburton
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by gilburton » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:06 pm

That's why I'd like to know the engine model. Generally smaller engines than 10hp are fitted to generators etc.
If it's a Chinese clone the model number will be CF--- or something. If it's a Yanmar it will be L---.
Last edited by gilburton on Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pietenpol2002
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by pietenpol2002 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:41 pm

Oops! Even though my eyes read Yanclone, my mind said Yanmar. Let's hope it's the 186F
Ron
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by bigfrankfromwhitby » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:09 pm

It's a ud186, guessing it's the same as the 186f. It has the starter motor and the charging system. Has anyone got any pictures or heard of one of there engines fitted to a bmw k75 or similar ?
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by gilburton » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Looks good. It appears to be 10hp and the capacity is fine.

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by pietenpol2002 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:38 am

It appears to be 10hp and the capacity is fine.
And that 2 mm longer stroke gives you a whopping 12 additional cubic centimeters over the earlier 406 cc models. As well as the benefit of the improved 2 bolt rocker boss head.

I'll defer to others who are better informed on what final drive ratios are available for the K75. Stock final drives coupled to the 3600 RPM engine makes for slow scenery.
Ron
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by bigfrankfromwhitby » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:01 pm

I had a feeling that might be the case. I would like the bike to be able to cruise at about 50mph really. I wonder If there is any chance of changing the final drive bevel box for one with a better ratio or a larger profile rear tyre.

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by coachgeo » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:10 pm

bigfrankfromwhitby wrote:I had a feeling that might be the case. I would like the bike to be able to cruise at about 50mph really. I wonder If there is any chance of changing the final drive bevel box for one with a better ratio or a larger profile rear tyre.
There are Ton of folks with the same "cruise" dream and a 10hp engine. Realistically..... non make it to 50 "cruise" which is an average of 60+ in reality when you add in speed variations with grades. Read through here and you'll find many many such projects.

Cruise at 45mph is more realistic.

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by gilburton » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:52 pm

Problem with the BMW is it's not very light and you will have problems getting a final drive ratio to suit.
Better to stick with as light a bike as possible and using chain drive allows you to fine tune the ratios more easily and cheaply as industrial sprockets do not cost much.
There are plenty of projects on this site to give you inspiration but 50/55mph is about the max you can expect from 10hp which drops on hills especially long inclines.
If you want more then a twin engine is really the way to go.

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by bigfrankfromwhitby » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:04 pm

I'v just picked up this aixam cvt from of a mates who took out the diesel and fitted a bike engine. The kubota gad gone but this was only a tenner. Now the question is how have some of you lot manager to fit these. My engine has an inch taper but the variator seems to be about 3/4 taper.
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by gilburton » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:57 pm

The Kubota uses a small adapter that bolts to the flywheel and is tapered to fit the cvt.
Unfortunately the Yanclone shaft is part of the crankshaft so I think it's going to be difficult.
All I can suggest is taking it to an engineer and see if you can get the centre of the pulley machined out to match??
The other option might be to get the adapter and cut off the taper on the shaft and using a flanged bush adapted to mount the adapter??
This would also have the effect of getting the pulley more inward to the engine.

C30 in the diagram.

http://bildepan.frontosa.se/shop/defaul ... howKat=560

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by bigfrankfromwhitby » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:39 pm

Yea I'm unsure of were this part went. I have spoke to a guy who deals in breaking aixam and he has these of the petrol lombardini engine but he does not know if there are the same. I'm going to try and use the shaft out of the generator and turn it down to the same profile as the shaft in the variator so it will mount straight in to the crank. Depending on how easy it is tho :-)
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by coachgeo » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:47 pm

You will most likely need a different spring in the Secondary Clutch (maybe Helix too) and cams or weights in the primary to match the RPM potentials of your engine to the Clutches out of the Axiam. Also get a few different lenght belts so you know what you have to work with in your build.

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by gilburton » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:48 pm

Shouldn't need to alter the springs as it came from the diesel Aixam the revs are about the same as a single cylinder 10hp engine.
It worked ok on my Robin engine.
If you get the standard Aixam belt the centres of the pulleys are about 240mm apart so depending on the bike you'll need to make sure you can get it all in although I managed to fit it to an MZ but it was close lol.
The taper on the petrol versions will be exactly the same but the bolt pattern will probably be different although that wouldn't matter as you are altering things from scratch.
If you order one also get the long bolt that bolts the pulley to the taper.
I think the rear pulley uses a 19mm shaft so if you look for a kart axle with a keyway you could cut that to length.
I got a 3/4" shaft but I found it a bit tight.
Join this Yahoo group and you will get plenty of info in the files and links on the cvt and how to assemble it.
https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ ... opics/6377

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by bigfrankfromwhitby » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:36 pm

haven't got a picture but i have turned a new taper on to the variator so it sits on to the shaft now but I'm still not quite happy about how far it sticks out of the bike. the variator is about 7 inch plus 2 inch of shaft. i don't know if this has been done before but i am tempted to mount the cvt pulleys behind the engine to keep the bike as narrow as possible. using the driven pulley connected to a shaft on 2 pillow bearings with the sprocket on for the chain drive and having the variator mounted above it on a shaft with 2 more pillow bearings. the end of this shaft would need drive from the engine like a belt or chain. i dont think power losses would be a great deal as its only an extra shaft to drive but it would certainly make for a slimmer bike

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by gilburton » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:09 pm

No reason why not as long as you have the room??
The only downside is that you may have the pulley sticking out where your left leg should go??
Best thing to do is make up a cardboard template of the 2 pulleys app 250mm apart and see if it fits.
You haven't said what bike you are using but if you get the small tapered adapter and bolt that to a shaft on bearings it shouldn't be too difficult.
If you mounted the sprocket/chain on the right of the engine the domed part of the drive pulley would be behind the engine.
You might be better getting a double v belt pulley rather than chain??
I've always used these people but you can get most stuff from local bearing suppliers

http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by bigfrankfromwhitby » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:41 pm

I haven't got a chassis yet. Was wanting to get an engine and transmission sorted before I get one but I'm now needing one really. Just whatever I can get cheap with a blown engine or no engine. I could have a kawasaki z400 of a friend which might be good. An xj600 would be nice too as there pretty cheap.

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by gilburton » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:15 pm

If you got the adapter and attached it to something like this and using a taper lock bush you could cut off the taper on the engine and mount this to the parallel part of your shaft.
http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/BF-12_Bolt ... sh-91120-p
As has been mentioned the shaft appears to be 26mm at this point so you may have to get it turned to 25mm or 1" whichever is nearest. The taper lock bushes come in metric or imperial or get the taper lock reamed out ??
The taperlocks do have a small amount of movement.
The only other thing is you really need a keyway cut in the shaft to match??
I don't know if others have done this but you might ask Alexander Forti how he mounted his sprocket to the shaft on a similar engine??

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by pietenpol2002 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:41 pm

If you goal is to stay slim, you'll need to mount both pulleys and their respective jackshafts fully behind the engine. Even with the Comet 40 using their shortest belt, you need something close to 15". It would appear the Aixam pulleys are somewhat larger and your belt choices may limit you even further. So, you're trading width for length.
There are several examples here on the board of jackshafts being stacked vertically. Doing so keeps you both short and narrow. Depends a good deal on you choice of donor bike and the avialable space.
Ron
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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by sbrumby » Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:42 am

Just be aware if you mount the cvt behind the engine you end up with 2 jackshafts, how do you get the drive to the first shaft?
If you do this with chain and sprockets and is not oil bathed it will grow in length with little useage, this is because of the power stroke is 25% of 360 deg. Not so important on multi pistoned engines. That said it is probably the easiest way to sort out the correct ratios.
Sam

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by Diesel Dave » Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:03 am

Not promoting the use of multi-V belt drive Sam?

I thought it was your signature piece... :D

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by bigfrankfromwhitby » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:06 pm

i'm happy to use v belts and at a quick look they seem quite available and loads of options, is there a preferred option like either singe or double or the size of the belt? yea i was thinking of having the cvt mounted verticly so i could keep the chain on the correct side of the bike and keep the build as compact as i can ( even with the aixam cvt :D )

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Re: yanclone in to something build?

Post by sbrumby » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:20 am

Just trying to impart some knowledge to a new build. When starting a build you will make mistakes and have to alter. If you use straight shafts and taperlock drives it gives you many options and variables. If you have to move things to the left or right it is a small job with no cost. If you end up with V belts as Dave rightly points out is my prefered option, if you end up with one belt two or three depends on the HP they are designed to take, but best to go for multi as if you did lose one you will still get back. If useing multi belts make sure they are matched, not just the same length but also consecutive numbers as they do vary.
Sam

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