CX500 Kubota

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CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:06 pm

Hi there, I have finally got around to making a build thread. The bike is already complete, but i figured I's show the process/progress pics to provide info/help to future builders and possibly get some advice for future modifications form the knowledgeable people on the forum. Thanks goes out to pietenpol2002 and coachgeo for offering help during the build. Please see the thread titled "Reefer Unit Kubota D722 into Honda CX500" for my previous posts. The bike was completed at the end of last summer too close to the end of the riding season to be worth putting on the road. Unfortunately I was too busy this summer to put it on the road. Plans are to build a second bike of simpler design (chain drive instead of shaft), and put this one on the backburner until that is done. The reason for building a second bike before putting this one on the road is because I intend to replace the D722 with a Z482 which I have aquired, and then to use the the D722 in the second bike. The reason for this is that the D722 was a shoehorn fit into this frame and caused the drive system to be mounted within the rear subframe mounts, which create a u shaped cavity if viewed from above (please see pictures) . This means that although it works fine, it is a lot of work to service and adjust (complete engine removal). My thinking is that the Z482 is short enough that the drive system will be mounted just in front of these mounts, therefore I should be able to unbolt and remove it out the side.

I will be uploading pictures very soon. Please check out the video I took of the first shakedown run. Please read the description.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blh_TBd ... BoxgCQAiqw

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by Tetronator » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:16 pm

Nice! Very similar to what I'm planning to do, just a different bike and no CVT. What Carrier/Reefer unit did you pull it out off? I'm looking for sources where I could get a D722.
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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:20 pm

Cool to hear, what bike do you plan to use? Unfortunately mine was always seperated from the reefer unit when I purchased it so I dont know what unit it came out of. I can tell you that thermo kings use almost exclusively yanmars with some exceptions and carrier transicolds use almost exclusively kubotas with some exceptions. So focus on carrier reefers.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by Tetronator » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:25 pm

Allright thanks, I'm hoping to get me a Dnepr K750 and just mating the D722 to the gearbox. Maybe turboing it... :twisted:

Check the details here: http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/view ... =31&t=2873
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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:31 pm

http://www.sunbeltcarrier.com/wp-conten ... 593608.pdf
It appears that these units may use the D722 based on page 1-9 and some of the pictures showing three injector lines, not 100% sure though. I was going to mention that there is a Supra644 for sale near me for cheap, until I saw how far away you are located.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:43 pm

Some Pictures of the finished bike.
Optimized-20140822_145857.jpg
Optimized-20140822_145652.jpg
Optimized-20140822_145612.jpg
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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by Tetronator » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:45 pm

garbs wrote:http://www.sunbeltcarrier.com/wp-conten ... 593608.pdf
It appears that these units may use the D722 based on page 1-9 and some of the pictures showing three injector lines, not 100% sure though. I was going to mention that there is a Supra644 for sale near me for cheap, until I saw how far away you are located.
Haha, I appreciate the effort nonetheless. But the engine in that thing doesn't produce the 14 kW the D722 produces so I'm kind of doubtfull.
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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:46 pm

I should say that the bike is 95% complete in the pics. Some little things need to be permanently mounted or added like the brake and rear signal lights. These were changed last minute.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:47 pm

I noticed that too but, if you look closer that is at only 2200 rpm, not the 3600 rpm they are usually rated at.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by Tetronator » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:50 pm

garbs wrote:I noticed that too but, if you look closer that is at only 2200 rpm, not the 3600 rpm they are usually rated at.
You know what, I think your right. The displacement actually matches up too.
http://www.prinsmaasdijk.nl/motoren/2/k ... -D722.html
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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:55 pm

Sorry, the manual i posted says 10.3kw at 2200rpm, which matches up with this graph perfectly.

http://www.m-k.com/pdf/D722.pdf

Also on closer inspection of the pictures I can see that the coolant port on top of the engine is the exact same as on my D722

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:01 pm

Not that it matters just thought it was interesting, but I looked at the picture in the link you posted to see the coolant port and it appears that they have used the incorrect picture and used one of a Z482 instead (2 injectors). Just a precaution, dont use that particular picture as a reference for a D722. I may be mistaken. The dimension pictures at the bottom of that page are however correct. If you need any particular dimensions for the engine let me know.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by Tetronator » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:10 pm

I think we're kind of hijacking the tread here... Lets move it over to my tread.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by coachgeo » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:23 am

How are you connecting to the shaft drive? Chain and sprocket or Honda tranny grafted on orr?

Is the second filter for an oil cooler or big fuel filter orr?

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:33 am

The drive system is fairly complicated.

An 80 tooth htd pulley mated to flywheel drives up to a 40 tooth htd pulley. On the 40 tooth pulley shaft is a comet 40 series primary which drives down to the secondary. On this secondary's shaft is a 10 tooth sprocket which drives over to a 16 tooth sprocket on a shaft which is mated to the shaft drive through the stock u joint. I didnt drive the cvt right off the crank because I didnt have enough room to fit a cvt large enough to handle the torque of the engine. This is the reasoning behind the 2:1 ratio of the htd pulleys, the torque is reduced by 50% allowing me to use the smallish 40 series comet. The sprockets after the cvt are used to get the correct final ratio as the ratio in the shaft drive rear end is fixed.

One filter is for the fuel, the bigger one towards the front. The other is the oil filter which I had to remote mount due to the stock location being right behind the front frame tube. You can see this best in the third picture I posted. The lines from from the oil filter connect into the block behind the tube there through an adapter. I did discover later on that the D722 has an alternate mount on the other side, however my exhaust is in the way.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by coachgeo » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:33 am

garbs wrote:The drive system is fairly complicated.

An 80 tooth htd pulley mated to flywheel drives up to a 40 tooth htd pulley. On the 40 tooth pulley shaft is a comet 40 series primary which drives down to the secondary. On this secondary's shaft is a 10 tooth sprocket which drives over to a 16 tooth sprocket on a shaft which is mated to the shaft drive through the stock u joint. I didnt drive the cvt right off the crank because I didnt have enough room to fit a cvt large enough to handle the torque of the engine. This is the reasoning behind the 2:1 ratio of the htd pulleys, the torque is reduced by 50% allowing me to use the smallish 40 series comet. The sprockets after the cvt are used to get the correct final ratio as the ratio in the shaft drive rear end is fixed.

One filter is for the fuel, the bigger one towards the front. The other is the oil filter which I had to remote mount due to the stock location being right behind the front frame tube. You can see this best in the third picture I posted. The lines from from the oil filter connect into the block behind the tube there through an adapter. I did discover later on that the D722 has an alternate mount on the other side, however my exhaust is in the way.
Yep, exact opposite side of one oil filter mount location is another. curious.. wonder if both oil filter locations could work at same time hmmmm. Might allow for use of two of the smallest/low profile oil filters one can get, but overall have filtration total area no less than one OEM size filter.... hmmm..

Smart use of 2:1 belt down to smaller CVT then sprocket and chain for final gear ration manipulation. guess you could have used belts in place of sprocket/chain combo too if you wanted.

Curious is the over all depth of that belt/cvt/chain set up.... smaller, about equal too, or larger than a typical bikes tranny portion of the engine?

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:26 am

Im sure the two smaller filters could would work. Good idea. A belt could have been used in place of the chain for this general design, however not in my case as I didnt have enough room. The initial belt is at the limits of its torque capacity and is 30mm wide. If a belt were used in place of the chain it would also have to be around 30mm to handle the torque due to speed reduction (and torque multiplication) through the cvt. Like I said this could be made to work no problem, it just wouldn't have worked for me as I did not have the room for an inch wide belt vs a half inch wide chain. Every single piece of my drive system was machined/mounted in a way to compact the drive system depth wise.

-using belt just wide enough to handle the engines torque
-using comet 40 series clutches which were both machined to reduce depth
-portion of secondary clutch sits within centre of hollowed out flywheel/80 tooth htd pulley assembly
-thin but adequate bearings were used
-chain instead of belt for final drive to shaft
-mounting brackets mounted within very tight tolerances to moving parts

This brings me to your question. I did all of the above to fit the drive system within the space I had between the engine block and main frame tube with the engine as far forward as I thought reasonable. The whole drive system from block to the back end which is practically touching the frame tube is 7". It was very frustrating trying to make it fit in this space but i am happy with the end result. I could have used a chain instead of the initial belt but at he time felt a chain spinning at engine speeds would need good lubrication (messy), and be loud. The belt solved these issues. If I could go back and do it again I would probably use a chain and put up with the mess from keeping it well lubricated (drip feed?) because the HTD pulleys I used were very expensive and took a good chunk out of my available room. If you had the room and the money factor wasn't too much of a concern I could see a double belted system such as you suggested being very nice. I am not sure if 7" is shorter or longer then say a BMW tranny such as mouse used but I am also curious to know.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by coachgeo » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:03 pm

when you get the opportunity would you please take a pic(s) of what can be seen of your belt/cvt/chain arrangement along with descriptions. Sounds like a work of art.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:37 pm

For sure. I will get some up later today.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:46 pm

Right side:
Ignore the cut bolts, they were for a reinforcement bracket which I determined wasn't needed and the idler pulley needs to be removed to take them out. For the sake of the pictures I just cut them. The right side bracket was used to anchor the chain tensioning springs and is no longer there, hence the allen key slid through them to hold them out of the way for now.
20141215_160808.jpg
20141215_160726.jpg
20141215_160002.jpg
Left Side
20141215_160641.jpg

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by Tetronator » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:09 pm

That there be some sturdy engineering!
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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:33 am

Thanks it took a lot of machining and repeated assembly/disassembly to get it to work.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by Tetronator » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:30 am

I just noticed, yeah took me a while, your radiator is rear mounted with the cap on the side. How's that working out for you? Enough cooling?
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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:28 pm

Works great I had the rad modified by a radiator shop to make it work turned 90 degrees onto its side. The location was changed and a fill point was added on the top corner of the right side for filling. The feed and return lines under the tank are the highest point of the cooling system so they both have fill points there as well. The fan I used is a very good unit. Fairly low power draw with high flow and is one of the thinnest I could find depth wise. If you're looking for an electric fan to use I'd highly recommend the one I used if it is available where you are.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:30 pm

I ideally would have placed it in front of the engine as usual but simply didn't have the room for it. I think I could have made two tall thin units mounted on either side at the front work but I had that rad and it was a good unit so I made it work.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by Tetronator » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:55 pm

I'm still thinking about radiator placement and I would like it rear mounted, so its out of the way of debris coming off the front wheel. I'm having a lot of headaches with that on my shadow, already replaced the rad once, and this "new" one is allready filling up with road gunk.

So I'm thinking either the way you did it, or maybe 2 one behind the other longitudinally along the bike. One being a cold rad and the other being the warm rad. With a fan in the middle, blowing trough an air-duct. Not sure about effectiveness on that tough, depends on space available I guess. I've got a motorcycle wreckers nearby so choice a plenty.

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by pietenpol2002 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:20 pm

Great job on that build. A remarkable peice of engineering packed into a very small space. And we can't wait for your next build.

Do you have any knowlege of the Kubota/Honda build spotted less than 2 hours from you in Bowmanville, Ont? It's clearly a Kubota in a 750 frame and given how little it protrudes, it might well be a 482. The presence of the shaft and bearing suggests a CVT. Which would also allow for a larger engine to be protruding to the left - but unlikely.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RTaDnLrHxms/U ... diesel.JPG

Found further down the page on this site.

http://daveroperracing.blogspot.com/201 ... chive.html
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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:50 am

Thanks for the compliments. Sorry for the slow reply. I do not have any knowledge of that bike. Looks very interesting. My money would be on a z482 and cvt like you suggested.
Dissassembled the bike today in preperations for building the second bike. As mentioned before, this d722 will be the powerplant for the second bike and the first bike will be rebuilt/refined with a z482.
Took some pics as I removed the drive system piece by piece.
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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by garbs » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:51 am

20150111_212737.jpg

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Re: CX500 Kubota

Post by pietenpol2002 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:43 am

Thanks for those detailed pics. Always helpful to study how someone else puzzles through the design process. Again, an excellent piece of engineering. Which then leads to the question - and what form will your chain drive take? Do you plan to use a CVT? A gearbox? And the engine - transverse? North/south orientation?
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