Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

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Curtis in Texas
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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by Curtis in Texas » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:53 pm

Almost have the alternator ready to mount. Will post pictures when I get it done. Broke my special little sander I need to finish it. Looks like I'll be buying another little belt sander. No surprise, because I've abused this one for years.
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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by pietenpol2002 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:15 am

Curtis,

Looks like you can screw the oil filter to either side of the engine. Just out of curiosity, which direction will it be facing? And does either present an interferance?
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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:42 am

Here is the cradle tubes for the engine in mock up. These are not the actual tubes. Curtis will give more detail when time comes
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cradle2Sm.jpg
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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:45 am

pietenpol2002 wrote:Curtis,

Looks like you can screw the oil filter to either side of the engine. Just out of curiosity, which direction will it be facing? And does either present an interferance?
??? Where do you get this from? ohhh. maybe I see. the Round cap with the formed in nut head that sits just below the proposed alternator location. You think that is an OEM alternative location for oil filter..... VEWY INTAWESTING!!!!

If it fits the cards I would vote for a bypass block being milled out to sit in place where filter goes and with hydraulic hoses running to the easy to damge oil fiter in a new location such as tuck it in to where it runs along the block instead of poking out away from it. Say either behind the IP or the Starter Motor. Then put a guard over it and the hoses that run to it?
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oilfilterSm.jpg
AltOilfilterLocateSm.jpg

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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by pietenpol2002 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:33 pm

I'm assuming the flywheel will be to the left, placing the filter in its current location to the back of the engine and thus well protected. But not making for a particularly compact arrangement. Is this what you're referring to with respect to a remote filter?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1287345993

The other option is the right angle filter mount that turns it parallel with the engine making for a tighter package (seen in the link below just under the dynamo). It can actually be turned 360 degrees to whatever position is needed.

http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/down ... &mode=view
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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:20 pm

pietenpol2002 wrote:I'm assuming the flywheel will be to the left, placing the filter in its current location to the back of the engine and thus well protected. But not making for a particularly compact arrangement. Is this what you're referring to with respect to a remote filter?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1287345993

The other option is the right angle filter mount that turns it parallel with the engine making for a tighter package (seen in the link below just under the dynamo). It can actually be turned 360 degrees to whatever position is needed.

http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/down ... &mode=view
That right angle would turn it same way I was thinking of doing with a unit like the one in the ebay ad and hoses... but more elegantly. Will have to see if I can find such a beast somewhere. where did you find yours?

$_3.JPG
One on Ebay. Common type though I would use right 90's in the hose ports
Last edited by coachgeo on Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Curtis in Texas
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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by Curtis in Texas » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:30 pm

pietenpol2002 wrote:I'm assuming the flywheel will be to the left, placing the filter in its current location to the back of the engine and thus well protected. But not making for a particularly compact arrangement. Is this what you're referring to with respect to a remote filter?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1287345993

The other option is the right angle filter mount that turns it parallel with the engine making for a tighter package (seen in the link below just under the dynamo). It can actually be turned 360 degrees to whatever position is needed.

http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/down ... &mode=view

Second attempt to post!

You are correct. The filter will be at the back of the engine when mounted. (lower right side) (flywheel to the left side) If it gets to be in the way, being as it's low on the block, I will add a remote mount and put it so that the filter is hanging down so as not to make a mess when changing.
That engine does have the option of moving the filter to the other side of the block. Kinda cool actually.
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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Curtis in Texas wrote:..... The filter will be at the back of the engine when mounted. (lower right side) (flywheel to the left side) If it gets to be in the way, being as it's low on the block, I will add a remote mount and put it so that the filter is hanging down so as not to make a mess when changing.
That engine does have the option of moving the filter to the other side of the block. Kinda cool actually.
Yeah it is pretty cool.. Your idea of point her downward with a remote kit sounds too smart.

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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by Curtis in Texas » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:00 pm

1st attempt.

Use to remote mount my race car oil filters all the time. It's the best way to get the filter out of harms way.
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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by coachgeo » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:56 pm

Curtis in Texas wrote:Almost have the alternator ready to mount. Will post pictures when I get it done. Broke my special little sander I need to finish it. Looks like I'll be buying another little belt sander. No surprise, because I've abused this one for years.
few more pics from curtus
AltMountTabSm.jpg
Alternator housing slotted to create a tightly tucked close into the engine alternator. This is pivot point for adjustment. Mounted to OEM tab on block (tab end modified slightly for clearance). Pic is shot from above with alternator swung out wide on pivot point created with this slot

AltFrntVwSm.jpg
Front View. Note the Alternator housing's mount tab sitting closest to block. This will be the one utilized for belt adjustment setup. Will at some point cut off 3rd mounting point on the Alternator housing to keep nice clean lines and unnessisary width

SideviewAltSm.jpg
Just enough room for Headers. Note how using the Triumph Alternator end cap puts the breather holes toward the bottom where the Suzuki were more exposed to the elements. But then again. Ground muck kicks UP off the tires while clean rain kicks down... hmmmm. so maybe Suzki would be better after all??

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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by Curtis in Texas » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:29 pm

Just how many mud holes do you plan on riding this heavy thing through George? Remind me not to ride with you or we should bring some stronger guys with us.

I suspect it will be sitting out in the rain more than it will be riding through mud puddles. Therefore, it is my recommendation that we leave the vent holes on the bottom so everything can drain rather, than making a cup to fill up and hold water in.

Oh, I picked up the new belt for it while I was in town and it fits perfectly at 36 inches.

One more thing down
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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by Curtis in Texas » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:35 am

Alternator almost done. I want to build a brass insert in the engine tab for the bolt to ride on since the tab is aluminum. Here's the Alternator with the new belt on.

Image

It will work like this but for a longer trouble free life I think the bronze bushing will be just the ticket.

Here is the adjuster I made out of aluminum.

Image

Doesn't look like much in the picture, but I milled it out of solid 1/2 inch aluminum plate. Might anodize it before we ride the bike! Then it would look a lot better.

AND, I might still cut that extra mounting hole off of the alternator. But I think I'll wait to see if it causes a problem once we start mounting the engine in the cradle. FYI the alternator sticks out just a little more than the starter motor, measured off the face of the block. And I"m only talking about 1/2 (26 MM), so I don't see it as being a mojor obstacle.

So George, we can pretty much call this problem fixed. Well, we do have to test this alternator to see if it's going to work, but, even if it doesn't it will just be a matter of getting it rebuilt.
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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by coachgeo » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:10 am

Curtis in Texas wrote:Just how many mud holes do you plan on riding this heavy thing through George? Remind me not to ride with you or we should bring some stronger guys with us.....
lol.... yep we'll need some beasty boy's to pick up a tiger after in impromptu sleep.

Your the most experienced so if you say bottom venting is best..... then bottom it is.

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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by coachgeo » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:11 am

Curtis in Texas wrote:Alternator almost done. I want to build a brass insert in the engine tab for the bolt to ride on since the tab is aluminum. Here's the Alternator with the new belt on......It will work like this but for a longer trouble free life I think the bronze bushing will be just the ticket.

Here is the adjuster I made out of aluminum....Doesn't look like much in the picture, but I milled it out of solid 1/2 inch aluminum plate. Might anodize it before we ride the bike! Then it would look a lot better.

AND, I might still cut that extra mounting hole off of the alternator. But I think I'll wait...

So George, we can pretty much call this problem fixed. Well, we do have to test this alternator to see if it's going to work, but, even if it doesn't it will just be a matter of getting it rebuilt.
Sounds and looks GREAT. One thing off the check list and moving forward. LOVE IT

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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by Curtis in Texas » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:12 am

I think we must have lost our audience George.
I told you we shouldda had some dancing girls a beer bottles in the pictures!
:D

Headers Flanges are next. If you guys are interested GOOGLE Anti Reversionary Headers.
The plan is to have the header flange built so that once I start fitting the engine in the cradle I can judge where to put the header. I'm wanting to copy the Triumph header output into the stock double mufflers. Since the factory exhaust has some special sound baffles they may be worth more intact to the Triumph guys.

We'll start a new thread on the exhaust in the appropriate section so follow along if you're interested.

I sent George on a quest to find us a 1" stub shaft for the drive pulley to flywheel.
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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by pietenpol2002 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:35 am

You haven't lost us Curtiss. Just sitting quietly with rapt attention. Excellent work on the alternator.

As noted in an earlier posting, Kubota does make an adapter for this engine, but it's not cheap.

http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/down ... &mode=view
http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/down ... &mode=view

Or you could do like Dieselbikin did on his D902/CVT. Just head down to the local Tractor Supply and grab a sprocket/shaft combo. And with with the lathe you have Curtiss, you could turn the teeth off as well as index the holes. Likely a good deal cheaper than an OEM Kubota part.

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr24 ... fe3105.jpg
http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr24 ... ddecae.jpg
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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by coachgeo » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:42 am

now irrelevant post after move
Last edited by coachgeo on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by gilburton » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:04 am

If it was the UK, with the rain we get, I would either make up a small shield/cover to protect the alternator from anything thrown up as well as the wet.
Another idea might be to combine the belt cover and alternator shield/cover? :)

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Re: Kubota Charging system from scratch

Post by Curtis in Texas » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:15 am

pietenpol2002 wrote:You haven't lost us Curtiss. Just sitting quietly with rapt attention. Excellent work on the alternator.

As noted in an earlier posting, Kubota does make an adapter for this engine, but it's not cheap.

http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/down ... &mode=view
http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/down ... &mode=view

Or you could do like Dieselbikin did on his D902/CVT. Just head down to the local Tractor Supply and grab a sprocket/shaft combo. And with with the lathe you have Curtiss, you could turn the teeth off as well as index the holes. Likely a good deal cheaper than an OEM Kubota part.

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr24 ... fe3105.jpg
http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr24 ... ddecae.jpg

Thanks for the tip. I can work wonders with that.
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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by Eddy Wane » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:21 pm

Yes Curtiss still glued to my seat waiting of the next instalment. It's like the Saturday morning at the pictures...... Did the Lone Ranger die falling off the cliff? Did Flash Gordon crash his ship? Of course not but we are intrigued to find out how you sort out your build problems.
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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by Curtis in Texas » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:54 pm

Okay then will do write ups as I go along and solve this puzzle. I may make mistakes, so be kind when you point them out. Although I've built a lot of custom machinery in my day, this is my first diesel motorcycle build from scratch.

I did some improvements to David Sparks's diesel KLR conversion but that was simply improving on his idea. And BTY I'm still riding it. Yea, for those who don't know I bought it and am still riding it.

It's a hoot. If any of you guys ever pass through North Central Texas and think you'd like to throw a leg over it and take it for a spin let me know. We'll. Mount up the KLR'S and take them for a loop through the country. It will be like whoreing out one of my girlfriends but what the heck!

This Tiger build has it's challenges for sure. I'm concerned that I won't be able to keep.it as narrow as I'd like. I envision it having that big drive pulley sticking out like a BMW cylinder. Only on just one side. But I'm an old crotch rocket rider and I like to corner harder than the Harley's.
So if you guys have suggestions and ideas, by all means throw them out. Either here or in a PM. I'm open to the collective thought processes if this Forums Members and welcome your insight.

Funny you should mention old Saturday morning serial movies, I was and still am a big fan of those. Buster Crab in Flash Gordon was one if my favorites when I was a little kid.
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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:18 pm

Report/Update. Nothing exciting just behind the scene dilemmas.

Right now we are attempting to get enough info on side loads causing crank issues and tie town the layout design for the CVT. As in....... do we attach jackshaft to brackets off the engine.... or put jackshaft on the frame. Jackshaft on frame increases side loads!! Especially cause the engine is rubber mounted. So that issue ties to the next issue.... SIDELOADS

Though we really don't have the info yet (and are seeking it) to justify either way Both Curtis and I would like to do something to protect the crank or at least the bushing there so it does not have to be replaced often. Ideas we've discussed are using a product from www.hayescouplings.com/‎ . While this certainly would do the job this has two issues; Do they make something for a 1" shaft which they do not show on their site. Also Pushing the Primary Clutch more outboard to make room for such a product also pushes the Secondary more outboard and even more width overall is not good. The other idea is a bearing outboard of the CVT as has been done for competition snowmobiles prone to crank cracking. See viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2451 JJ's does not make one for custom projects. Only for OEM polaris snowmobile/ATV? arrangements.

So we're at this:

So here is my thoughts on where to go next:

. Go with Curtis's engineering mind on where to best mount supports to hold the brace/bearing in the future and proceed without it for now leaving space etc. for adding later
... possible ideas:
...... mount jackshaft to block and tie the two shafts together like JJ's design for necessary strength
...... mount jackshaft to bike as originally planed and mount the support for the crank outboard like half of JJ's design but instead of it being tied to the jackshaft; somehow tie it to the block for strength (for example as an integral part of a set of crash bars that tie to the block in several places, or part of a beefy side cover orrr???

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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:24 pm

Report/Update: On side loads- We've decided to do an outboard support bearing. It will sit on the tip of the Primary. This may be done very last or later on in the down the road after running it awhile.

Been also bashing around info on the used SAEBaja CVTech drive we have. If you might recall this thing has a large chunk-a-hunk of a collar on the back of it that would force it sit way out on the stub shaft. I've been trying to search out more info on this cause this seemed unusual from all the other pics I've seen of this model primary clutch. Finally an answer from CVTech IBC after I called them for advice. I orginally contacted CVTechIBC directly and same as others have mentioned really got no where that route. So I called CVTech ABB (no sure the difference) and they put me right thru to an engineer. Due to laungauge barrier he had me email him my questions and WHALA... few days later I get the below
Hello George,

This setup is originally from a Ariens Trekker UTV.
If you even need replacement parts, knowing where it comes from will help you find them.

The collar you are referring to is only necessary to respect the proper alignment of the pulleys in the original machine it was made for.
You can cut this collar to fit the alignment in your machine, it will only make it better with less overhung load on the crank.

This CVT is setup to work on a heavy UTV with gas engine that revs around 3800 rpm with about 22hp.
Your project will be much lighter than this UTV with only a bit less power.
I suggest to try it just like that, it should be pretty close. If you need to adjust it, just e-mail me and I will help you.

Good luck in your project.

David Ouellet, Jr. Eng.
OK so I bought it from an SAEBaja buggy builder. SAEBaja is sponsored by CVtech so I assumed this unit was one of the type used in the SAEBaja bugggies. buttt noooooo...... it's from a different ball park. It's from a UTV side by side

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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by BertTrack » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:37 pm

Wow great result! Someone in Cvtech to contact and get a reply!

Brilliant! Nice going! And hmmm those rpm and hp figures.. I wonder how much torque is has to handle and at what rpm on the utv. That could be solved by using heavier weights possibly.

Very nice!
Image

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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Sat May 03, 2014 3:17 am

small update:

The father of one of my students repairs commercial mowers. he is going to get me a Stub shaft off of a spare Kubota..... well try too. They are splined so we will have to have a machine shop modify it to a straight keyed shaft.

After much much much *proding of Quality Drive Systems, ton of research, assitance from CVTech as noted above and from an Engineer now with Gates (makes belts; maybe more) I finally got some info on what potential distance center to center of the clutches and what belts match them that we should consider in the build.

From Noah from Gates (former SAEBaja build competitor, thus his interest in things "fabricated") see the attached pic for details on a belt for a CC of about 8.5". The other file (if it can be loaded?) is from Roy at QDS with several belts and their CC's
image002.png
Gates Belt
Crap QDS belt chart cant be attached so typed it in belowI. have it in a PDF or .xls if anyone needs it.

MODEL PB50-DRIVE / LP3 -DRIVEN CARLISLE BELT SELECTION OPTIONS ( 1-3/8 TOP WIDTH. )


P/N.............CENTER DISTANCE... OUTSIDE CIRCUMFERENCE of belt
UA423....................8.87...........................37.17
UA411....................11.5...........................42.16
MAX1048M3...........12.06.........................43.25
MAX1062M3...........12.25.........................43.63
MAX1108M3...........12.5...........................44.13
MAX1119M3...........13.12.........................45.25
MAX1112M3...........13.25.........................45.63
MAX1109M3...........13.75.........................46.43
MAX1105M3...........14.13.........................47.25
MAX1130M3...........14.37.........................47.75
MAX1035M3...........15.06.........................49.13


NOTE: "UA" BELTS WILL RIDE IN .050



*Honestly all these issues with what distance Center to Center from the Stub shaft on flywheel and jackshaft should be... and having a belt for that distance would have been avoided if I had just bought a NEW Cvt and not a used OEM one. Off the shelf kits offer to you part numbers for belts of various lenghts and list for you the CC the belts match. The issue with used is..... even though the things are conceptually the same.. part houses don't know shiat about CC and what belts match that. They only know how to look up part numbers. So in hour$ this used unit cost me tripple of new CVT kit$. But in reality.. I can afford hours spent more than I can afford USD spent so here I sit exhausted from all this research, poking, proding, motivating of anyone who might have the info I need. Finally it appears to have paid off.

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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Sat May 17, 2014 4:16 am

Curtis got side tracked a bit with beautiful results. He was hired to build some racks etc. for a set of bikes on there way to do some exploring in Alaska if I recall right. Here is the results of one part of the project.
cropedKTMrack2.jpg
final version of rack ready do mount
cropedKTMrack.jpg
View of rear rack with spare fuel container, Throttle side
cropedKTMrack3.jpg
Full eye candy showing the rack. Clutch Side
He's back at the Tribota now. Experementing with brackets to mount jackshaft to engine and making of a Stub shaft.

First was making a centering pin that sits in the pilot bearing hole in the fly wheel to ensure everything stays centered as being made. From there some round plates will be cut out and made to screw into the flywheel clutch bolt holes
20140516_112740.jpeg
Pilot Bearing center pin being made in Lathe
20140516_112647.jpeg
Centering pin sitting in the pilot hole
Primary Clutch in the lathe. The white hub will get basterdized for part of the stub shaft building. the black collar on back of the Clutch will be ground down. It is only needed for the orginal OEM application of that clutch (a UTV) Newer bolts in the flywheel shows that the plate shaft gets welded too will be about 5"? diameter (flywheel is 8.5"). The actual stub shaft will be keyed and it too will be milled down like the centering pin above so part of it will sit in the pilot bearing hole in the crank. This will give it more strength. The stub shaft will be designed to get that Primary clutch tucked in as close to the flywheel as possible.

Side note. Keyed shafts (jack and stub) along with ecentric locking pillow blocks for the jack shaft (7/8") are in shipment so some of this will have to wait
20140516_113124.jpeg

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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Mon May 19, 2014 5:24 pm

Some images of Sub frame/Engine Basket. Decision was to do to go this route and not keep the hanging engine structural member of the OEM. Decided this to make it easier to help isolate the vibrations from OEM frame and rider to increase comfort and reduce vibration stresses to the OEM product not designed for them. Engine will be mounted on isolatng mounts within the Basket. Trying to put isolating mounts into the hanging OEM engine design would negate it being a structural unit it was intended to be by OEM. We didn't want to go and open that can of worms though it might be a years down the road it becomes an issue..

All kudos go to Curtis not me. Im a humble bystander
Attachments
basket3.jpeg
basket2.jpeg
basket.jpeg
radiator.jpeg

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Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Tue May 20, 2014 5:13 am

Curtis tried to post up more info about above but got logged out automaticaly somehow and lost his hole post in never never cyberland. If anyone has any idea why this keeps happening to him please speak up. On average he's only been able to respond, or post here randomly for a long time due to this same issue. Usually the random is when it's something meaninfull of course. Go figure.

Anyway more on the basket on and...... also in the plan is that the basket can be dropped and/or tilted down for easy engine assess etc.
Attachments
fullbasket.jpeg
Basket6.jpeg
bakset5.jpeg
Basket4.jpeg

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coachgeo
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:00 am
Location: USA Ohio, Above Cincinnati, Close to Dayton

Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Tue May 20, 2014 5:22 am

ooops..... issue. "The alternator won't work in front. Going to need to remote mount the oil filter and put the alt in back".
oops1alt.jpeg
oops2alt.jpeg.jpeg
While at that. Curtis says "I am seeing a possibility of putting the driven (Secondary) on a hinged plate (attached to engine?) and having it adjustable with some lock down bolts in a pair of slotted bracket to keep it in the correct position. Looks to have enough room to work with if I remote mount the oil filter.
JackshaftHereHinged.jpeg

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coachgeo
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:00 am
Location: USA Ohio, Above Cincinnati, Close to Dayton

Re: Build Thread US Diesel Tiger

Post by coachgeo » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:56 pm

Curtis report: He's had lots of little projects that make some $$ and honey doe's. In between he's got some work done. Almost done with hub for the flywheel that holds the Primary clutch. The finish of tha will be a side engine cover that will include a pillow bearing to elemnate side loads.

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