Smart Tiger build thread

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Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:19 pm

Guys,

A bit of work is starting to happen on my smart engine tiger now so I think its about time I started a thread to keep track of it all. Apart from anything if I put a thread up about it then it means I can't slack off. :mrgreen:

Today I managed to get my grubby mitts on a suitable front pulley. Took a while in coming but finally sitting here in all its glory. What I hadn't bargained for was the fact it weighs about 5kg! I guess it won't wear out any time soon though maybe should have researched an alloy one or something. Still, got it for a measly £20 which I thought was excellent compared to online prices. Tempted to drill it or something but thats maybe not the best idea so I'll use it as is for now.

I've also to make up a bearing carrier and plate to hold the engine output shaft going into the front pulley. Have got the bearing so far, just wondering what thickness alloy plate I could get away with to hold it. Am guessing 10mm for now.

So far I've cut some gearbox mounts and got steel plate to set it on. Next will be welding these together and setting the assembly up on the bench in another tiger frame to allow easier positioning to align the engine. The plan is that once thats done I make up engine mounts and then unbolt everything to take it over to the "live" bike. Once I get to that stage it should be a case of solving the other little problems like plumbing and wiring hopefully. Most nervous about getting the belt straight and correct tension at the moment.

N
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Bangkok to Sydney ???

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by toad » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:39 pm

"Most nervous about getting the belt straight and correct tension at the moment."

can't say on your setup, but the harley setup is pretty forgiving. my belt on a harley had a idler on the slack side to adjust tension. i run it a little loose to conserve on power consumed by the belt. readjusted it after the break in. the alignment is to forgiving as it had a little wider driver pulley than the on the driven side. i was amazed of the amount of play in the clutch hub with the clutch disengaged. kinda just moved where it was needed. it all worked great and never had a minutes worth of trouble out of it..
hope this helps..

t

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:10 pm

Cheers for the reassuring words. We'll see what happens I guess. Hoping to avoid a tensioner setup on mine although engine/gearbox are not planned to move at the moment so have to be very accurate to get away with it.

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:30 pm

Some progress - just need to keep momentum now. Engine up on the bench along with the other frame and some bits. Gonna be fun trying to align it while hanging mid air! Make a jig? Invite some mates round? Hang it off roof? :) Note the precision engineered jig for holding frame at the back and also block of wood on the wall at the front (works suprisingly well). Now to fab up the gearbox mountings and then onto the engine.

Had some fun getting the custom made engine output shaft to fit properly, but it was a lot easier than I had been worring it would be. Seems straight too which is a bonus. This is getting interesting now as opposed to all the engine hassle...

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by LocomotiveBreath » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:44 pm

Keep your eye open for a frame jig, I got lucky a couple of months ago, and picked this brand new custom built jig for $200. Good luck, and I wish you well on your project.

Dave
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by andrewaust » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:25 am

This will be a very interesting thread = Looking on with much interest ;) !!


A ;)

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:26 pm

Cheers for the supportive comments.

Plate made to mount gearbox tonight with a mate. Big fun with the welder :) Problem is I think we may have left a bit much metal on one side so some tweaking with grinder probably required, will know more when its offered up to the bike I guess. Ho hum.

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by coachgeo » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:07 am

Don't know why I was thinking you were going lengthwise with shaft drive. I know.... with the questions you asked me that makes no sence.... but thats where my mind was sitting.

Anyway.... glad to see your moving into this stage. Definately peaked my intrest.

My bikes will be here in a few days. I have a gas version of the engine I will be using. Have been "told" the blocks are identical to the diesel in how they mount up. If I can get this verified at least I can start mocking things up.

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by johnfireball » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:56 pm

Hi Crazy,
Looks like that engine will fit in just great. Do you have to cut the frame? You'r into the most gratifying part of your build now, enjoy it.
John.

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:59 pm

Cheers guys.

I'm very much hoping not to have to cut the frame. Gearbox should mount up ok at least although time will tell how the engine fits round everything else.

Coach, if you go to the lombardini website and look under their products section you can find technical drawings of their engines. That way you could confirm if the gas engine has the same dimensions and mounts as the diesel?

N
Smart engined 800cc turbo diesel triumph tiger. 100mpg (imp)
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by coachgeo » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:15 am

Crazymanneil wrote:....Coach, if you go to the lombardini website and look under their products section you can find technical drawings of their engines. That way you could confirm if the gas engine has the same dimensions and mounts as the diesel?
Since Lombardini is more expensive and harder to get here I am doing with a Diahatsu (Briggs and Stratten) 34hp Turbo.

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:56 pm

Ah right, sorry coach, I was not keeping up at the back :)

Last nights progress attached. After mounting everything up I am happy that its aligned pretty good but measured the gearbox shaft height relative to some brackets and it looks to be about 10mm lower than it was originally. A bit concerned about this in case it makes the chain constantly rub the swingarm. Only thing I could do would be elongate the holes in my mounting bracket to move it up a bit. Not sure which is the lesser of 2 evils.

Interestingly I think the original front sprocket was out of line by about 5 - 7 mm. Manufacturing tolerances or something? Rear wheel is straight according to swingarm markings. Ho hum, will hardly hold her back. Have Friday off work to get the engine in and friend roped in... 8)

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Diesel Dave » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:22 pm

Now that's beginning to look familiar.

Dave

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by coachgeo » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:46 pm

a thought occured to me on a recent brain storm session.

If you have that 10mm plate on side of engine like HD where the tranny mounts too.... if you slot the tranny mount bolt hoes on the plate so you can slide the tranny to find the desired tension on the belt.. that might work. Granted a tensioner might be better.. but... just throwing out ideas.

This one might be good for prototyping as you experement with the amount of tension you want on the belt drive. Add tensioner once you got the tranny's point of mounting decided and then build a new plate for it.

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:47 pm

Yes, I am thinking of elongating gearbox mount holes though that will be last option. Slots will be weaker than holes in terms of keeping the box in the right position I think so will try to get everything right to start with (we'll see how that one goes!). I've the engine and gearbox setup on a bench at the moment (pic to follow). Having fun making sure everything clears everything else at the moment :)

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:52 pm

Another pic.

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by coachgeo » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:32 am

How much does your Smart weigh?

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:45 pm

Smart engined 800cc turbo diesel triumph tiger. 100mpg (imp)
Belfast to Kathmandu overland, 2010/2011 - http://www.suckindiesel.com
Bangkok to Sydney ???

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by coachgeo » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:15 am

wow.. 65kg..... thats one heck of a light engine

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:21 pm

Yep, the weight is one of the reasons I chose it though if I knew I was gonna have the issues with it that I did I may have changed my mind. Its not KISS anyway, but time will tell if it was worth it.

Brackets made for most stuff now so have to dismount it all from the bench to put it in the bike for trial fitup and make the last couple of brackets. Then everything has to come apart for all the brackets to get painted (powdercoated maybe if I am feeling generous). After that still the following to go -

Plumb coolant system
Plumb air intake (intercooler would be nice)
Electrics (eek)
Primary belt drive (and cover)
Final chain drive.
Low pressure fuel supply system
paperwork MOT etc.

Think I'll make it to Hamm?? :?

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Diesel Dave » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:39 am

Sounds like things are progressing well there Neil.

I have every confidence in you being ready for Hamm.

Keep plugging away there, each item completed takes you a little closer to the finish.

Dave

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by coachgeo » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:28 pm

just something to keep in mind,

Was talking to a Tiger Guru about frame flex and the fact that on Tigers the engine is part of the structure as a stress member. In his opinion the engine is at least 60% responsible for frame structural rigidity. He was not sure about if much or any frame flex occures.

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:38 pm

Cheers Dave. Got some welding re-done last night (and a bit of education) so tonight/tomorrow I'll be putting this stuff in the actual bike which is a big step forward. Some bits ordered today too.

Coach, you are quite right, the orignal engine is a stressed member as we were discussing before in this thread -

http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/view ... mber#p5080

and this one -

http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/view ... mber#p5201

I'm putting plenty of bracing in to compensate though and very thick over-engineered engine/gearbox mounts. Its re-assuring to see Heiko's bike worked out well. Have you taken the petrol tank off yours yet? There is plenty of metal in there. The headstock would be the weak point, but here also there is additional bracing as standard.

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by coachgeo » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:13 am

Sorry for bringing up a semi hashed out topic of frame rigidity. Brought it up cause of recent discussion on using rubber mounts and cause there is now Tiger owners watching this thread from outside the this forum, infact from completely outside the diesel bike world. Those folk have not been privey to the threads you linked.

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:10 am

hey hope i didn't come across arsey, just wanted to merge in the other threads. and like you say, frame flex is still a big concern for me. i'm trying to ignore it for now but will try to add as much bracing as i can when i get that far. (gulp)

great to hear others are watching the thread *wave*. it would be great if you sign up here to add your comments.

n
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Diesel Dave » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:12 am

I've not had a wobbly moment yet on Heiko's no 2 build.

I've dropped the forks a tad and spun the rear wheel axle to the lowest position but it's been rock steady, even 2 up with some lardy bloke on the back heading for the airport. :D :D :D :D

Dave

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:47 pm

Lol very true :mrgreen:

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:34 pm

Another couple of pics. Engine and gearbox trial fitted to the frame and (very) thankfully the pulleys still line up ok. It seems like the full day spent tweaking the alignment of things was well spent since the original panels still fit (had to loose the original fuel tap though). Onward and upward :roll:

N
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Smart engined 800cc turbo diesel triumph tiger. 100mpg (imp)
Belfast to Kathmandu overland, 2010/2011 - http://www.suckindiesel.com
Bangkok to Sydney ???

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by ssray » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:16 pm

)

great to hear others are watching the thread *wave*. it would be great if you sign up here to add your comments.

I`m a watcher, looks very good-when you have finished it please make an idiots guide to doing it and arrange babysitters for 6mths so I can build one.
Good luck

Ray

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:30 pm

Cheers Ray, thanks for taking the time to post. :mrgreen:

N
Smart engined 800cc turbo diesel triumph tiger. 100mpg (imp)
Belfast to Kathmandu overland, 2010/2011 - http://www.suckindiesel.com
Bangkok to Sydney ???

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