Smart Tiger build thread

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:35 pm

Ok, just a post to say I have not disappeared. Got a few stumbling blocks sorted and now frantically working at the bike to see if I can have it ready for Hamm. Now have most of the parts. Will post pics when I get a chance. Still to do are electrics, cooling system (some already mounted up), primary drive (got the bits now), final drive (chain cut and all) and the footery stuff (gearchange linkage, clutch line etc). I'd say 50/50 chance its ready on time...

Biggest stumbling block I forsee at the moment is how I'm gonna figure out an alternator. Thinking of using something off an old jap bike but its a bit of a lucky dip what current etc they'd give.

Keep her lit boyo 8)

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Diesel Dave » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:21 pm

Neil - go total loss electrics for Hamm and ride in the daytime :D

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by sbrumby » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:35 pm

only one choise when it comes to alternators Denso. Small and very powerful. The fist one I built I did with one off a nissan starlight about a tenner from a breakers and gives out about 60amps and will fit in palm of hand complete with regulator. If you see a beford rascal even smaller one on that.
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Stuart » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:27 pm

Some guys use the one from a 2CV car as they are well small (I'm told).
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:24 am

thanks for the suggestions. i'd been looking at bike alternators but car would be easier so i'll go back and look again.

found centre of flywheel plate using blutak last night. on wifes bike to work this morning to drop it off for macining later. picked a miserable weather day for it!

n
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by mr chips » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:44 am

I have a spare alternator from a Pug 106 1.5D, but it's probably too big. Still, it's sitting in Antrim at the moment and is yours if you want it.
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:53 pm

Hmm these nippon denso ones are tiny aren't they? I'll have a go with one to see how I get on but keep the pug one in mind cheers mr chips.

n
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Stuart » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:01 pm

I had the oppotunity to view my 106 (TUD3) alternator up close today and it doesn't look that small. I was under the car all day replacing the water pump. A rocker cover gasket has spewed oil all over the alternator and if nothing else, it's still going ok. Robust, unlike everything else on this engine :D
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:40 pm

Ok so where am I at? I've decided to slow down a bit and concentrate on doing things right as the bike won't be ready for Hamm unfortunately. That and I went to the machinists on Friday to pick up some spacers etc I was having made and they'd already closed (must close early on Fridays - doh!). Still waiting on some hoses for radiator etc too (cha ching!).

One of the pics attached is me finding the centre of my flywheel cover plate. I scratched my head for ages on this one and read up on google how to find the centre of a circle using straight lines etc. In the end I screwed some long bolts into the crank using PTFE (to keep them straight) and took an impression using blutak. It seems to have come out pretty well. Hole bored now and bearing installed. After I installed the first one I drilled a few holes to put a retainer plate on but then stupidly decided to blow the chips off with airline and of course some got by the seals and into the bearing. New bearing please...

Primary drive is installed although I keep dismounting it to fiddle with things and put it back on. Taperlock is a real plus here.

I've the air intake plumbed from the turbo to the inlet manifold although no room for an intercooler, at least yet anyway. Will have to see if a smaller one can be persuaded in somewhere.

Made another couple of brackets for things like waterpump and to support the gearbox. Also got me an alternator (thanks to Sams suggestions) which fits on nicely and got a suitable pulley and belt for it too.

At the moment not much more to be bought (thankfully/hopefully). The last 10% of the project seems to be the footery stuff. Its taking on a life of its own now and the project dictates the pace it wants to go. Try to outrun it and it seems to burn up the effort and money without moving forward much. Work with the pace and it is kinder.

Next steps to seal up the flywheel cover and install, install the coolant plumbing (when it arrives) and air intake + electrics. One final engine bracket to make before it comes apart bit by bit for painting. Will get some of this done before Hamm so not too much to come back to finish hopefully although I've been wrong before!

See some of you at Hamm, though not on this one unfortunately. Always next year...

N :mrgreen:
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Smart engined 800cc turbo diesel triumph tiger. 100mpg (imp)
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Stuart » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:05 pm

Looking good Neil :D Being in the electrickery game I'm interested to see if you had any problems with the loom. If you ever do a guide to this build that bit would interest me. This common rail electronics is a step into the unknown for most of us I reckon :? :D

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Diesel Dave » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:59 am

It was a bold try to get it done for this years event and given your timescales was always going to be a real challenge.

Still it's better to take your time and get it right than rush it and spend months afterwards correcting stuff, possibly at the side of the road.

Common rail leaves me less convinced but each to his own, all I need is a Pelham spring starter and some coal fired glowplugs and I can bin the battery.

See ya Thurs night on the boat!

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:57 pm

Cheers guys.

Yes common rail is a more complex, but unfortunately it seems to be the system used on most modern cars these days which are a good source for an engine for us bike builders. On the one hand you've an engine which is complex and tricky and on the other its light and powerful. I imagine in a few years there will be more electronics available to get them to run out of the original car which would open up the possibilities a bit more. Some good articles on common rail here.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_108104/article.html

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_108105/article.html

Stuart, if you let me know what you're thinking of I could maybe write an article about common rail for the site.

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Sphere » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:21 pm

Why write a general piece about something you can find on the internet? It would be much more helpful to describe what you need to do to use a smart engine in a motorcycle. Well, that just my 2 eurocents. I don't mean to say I would pass up a write up on common rail, but what seems to lack in the diesel community is cookbooks.

Once I'm done designing I will do a write up on what was needed for my Enfield so others won't have to make the same mistakes :lol:
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:02 pm

I think I might write a book after all this is over... :)

n
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by andrewaust » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:24 am

Going well Neil! Very quietly looking and watching this thread in envy :P




A ;)

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Diesel Dave » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:35 am

Neil departed Hamm for the Black Forest on Sunday, he's gonna put some miles under his missus F650 ( I said it's a girls bike).

He had a long chat with a bloke who built a Smart diesel into his BMW and I lost interest after the talk of sensors and crank acceleration vs which piston to fire next according to the ECU :shock: :?

I think he managed to pick up some good info along the way and seems to none the worse for wear after a lengthy 500 miles across the UK to reach the Harwich ferry on Thursday.

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:45 pm

thanks andrew. and thanks dave.

indeed learnt many things. bit more to think about for cooling system but we'll see how it goes.

managed to chat to the peugot guy in broken french too which was good. i thought he said he didn't make the bike? unless he thought i asked if he is a motorbike manufacturer.

danke everyone for a great rally. great to meet heiko too , nice down to earth guy.

greets from rainy germany!

n
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Stuart » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:10 pm

I think I might write a book after all this is over...
I hope you are making plenty of notes mate :D Very soon you will have talked with almost everyone involved with this engine. It would be nice to see your experiences written up :D
Hope the rain isn't too bad out there. We just had the wind in France.
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by sbrumby » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:05 pm

Lay of the beans Stu. Could be a case of blasing saddles.
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:39 pm

Hey, just back.

Indeed I have spoken to a lot of people using this engine now. Time spent researching is rarely wasted. The EDIMO guys certainly have an enviable setup with engine dynomometers and all the software tools. It would certainly be possible to do amazing things with all those tools! Maybe I should move to Germany and sign up for a course in their university :mrgreen:

They were very good to me and let me see everything and shared their stories with me. The EDIMO project is quite different in that it is a technical exercise foremost but was still great to talk with them and share a few common experiences. The way in which the engine is mounted on the EDIMO is fascinating with the bottom bracket also doubling up as part of the sump pan and bracket to mount the transmission. They have also experimented with EGR and particulate filters which is good to see also though beyond the capabilities of me.

One other interesting aspect was that after they designed the frame they attached sensors to monitor the stresses and calculate the expected lifespan. Only time will tell if I have enough metal in mine.

Anyway, back into my project now, hopefully some progress to post soon.

N
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Stuart » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:55 pm

Glad your tour was most fruitful Neil :D The EDIMO was the first Smart bike I saw and it was an eye opener at the time, for me and everyone else.
Hope you enjoyed your trip overall. I was lucky and saw no rain whilst on the road.
Stuart. Honda NC700S, Ducati Monster M900, Toyota Corolla 1.4 Turbo Diesel. Favouring MPG over MPH.

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:22 pm

Yegads its about time I posted some sort of update to this thread.

So the project has been progressing. Installed gearbox and discovered chain was rubbing on swingarm and frame due to shaft being around 5mm too low. So after some messing around the gearbox has been shimmed up and looking good now only having some fun making new longer bolts for it at the moment.

I machined the flywheel cover plate to clear the flywheel and bolted up so looking good there now too. I also fabricated up the bracketry to mount the bottom of the engine and line stuff up. Alternator mounted up too. Primary belt has been on and off a load of times for tweaks.

Also fabricated a bearing carrier for gearbox input shaft since I am not using the harley primary setup now. Starting to surprise myself with how far my welding has come on in the past year or so.

One more bracket to make then take it all apart to get coated/painted for final assembley, electrics and plumbing. Then see what breaks first and fix that... 8)

Neil
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by coachgeo » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:16 am

So what's the computer/ECU plan(s)?

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:23 pm

coachgeo wrote:So what's the computer/ECU plan(s)?
I think I have that sorted, at least I hope so. In the end it took a year (out of the three years spent so far) to get the engine running, see this thread -

http://www.suckindiesel.com/thingy/view ... f=21&t=602

Not been started since then so hopefully its ok in the bike. There is a lot of factors to consider with this engine, some of which may scupper it yet.

N
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Bangkok to Sydney ???

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Diesel Dave » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:39 pm

Neil,

What about that airlock question raised by that bloke in Germany with the smart/BMW?

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:06 pm

Diesel Dave wrote:Neil,

What about that airlock question raised by that bloke in Germany with the smart/BMW?

Dave
Thats one of the"may scupper" things...
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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by sbrumby » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:29 pm

Niel you seem a bit quiet on the tiger build . Where are you up to ? Last year you were trying to be ready for Hamm. Will you make the big knock, how about Uttoxeter, and Hamm?
Sam

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by Crazymanneil » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:01 am

Cheers Sam.

Yes had a few further issues, but still plugging away with it. Just been keeping my head down and getting on with it the past while. Seems strange to think I was trying for Hamm! I'm hoping to post up some more stuff in the next week or so. 8)

N
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Bangkok to Sydney ???

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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by andrewaust » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:36 am

Crazymanneil wrote:Cheers Sam.

Yes had a few further issues, but still plugging away with it. Just been keeping my head down and getting on with it the past while. Seems strange to think I was trying for Hamm! I'm hoping to post up some more stuff in the next week or so. 8)

N
Never seems to be enough hours in the day when your head down and arse up doing a project. At least it will be warmer days and longer hours for you guy's in the Northern Hemisphere soon ;)!!


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Re: Smart Tiger build thread

Post by mr chips » Sat May 29, 2010 7:46 pm

Hey Neil, thought I'd check in and see how you're getting on! My trike has been rebuilt and is pretty much three-quarters new. The 58bhp TUD engine has been replaced by a 90bhp 1.7 XUDT with turbo and intercooler - ooh, baby! Should be back on the road very soon, so will try to finally get down to you soon for a yarn.
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