Using wasted Hot Air

Doing stuff with air...

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Stuart
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Using wasted Hot Air

Post by Stuart » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:28 pm

It's been so cold riding in the UK this winter I've been reminded of the time I made use of the hot air blown from my Hatz 1B30 engine. I'd bolted a plate on to the cylinder & directed fan air via 1" copper pipes to my knees :-)
I didn't get hot from this (too much turbulance!) but it did at least normalise the temperature on the legs.
I no longer have this arrangement (or that particular bike) but am now wondering if anyone has ever succeeded in directing this wasted hit air to the handle grips? Or the legs? Any suggestions welcome! ;-)
Stuart. Honda NC700S, Ducati Monster M900, Toyota Corolla 1.4 Turbo Diesel. Favouring MPG over MPH.

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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by gilburton » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:22 am

I did notice when I put the fairing on the MZ my right leg was getting the hot air so it would probably not take much to divert it using the fairing and some shielding :) .

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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by Stuart » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:21 pm

I know Ola & Sönke duct hot air from their bikes. Ola stuffs a pipe down his trousers & Sönke routes it via a tank bag?!
Another source maybe to have an outer sleeve over the majority of the exhaust pipe and draw almost instant heat from that. Obviously you wouldn't extend it past the rear silencer but may put a 'U' bend in it back there so forward motion would push air forward to legs or handlebar area.
I can't go the electric heater route as I can't draw too much current from the battery.
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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by coachgeo » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:46 pm

Stuart wrote:I know Ola & Sönke duct hot air from their bikes. Ola stuffs a pipe down his trousers & Sönke routes it via a tank bag?!
Another source maybe to have an outer sleeve over the majority of the exhaust pipe and draw almost instant heat from that. Obviously you wouldn't extend it past the rear silencer but may put a 'U' bend in it back there so forward motion would push air forward to legs or handlebar area.
I can't go the electric heater route as I can't draw too much current from the battery.
look at heaterbox from old VW bugs to get ideas on how to do this. In case you did not know......... the VW heater box uses exhaust heat to warm bug interior. Also look at the cooling vest that had been used in US Military tanks in Gulf war etc. Vest got pumped in air to create evaporative cooling by pulling off sweat more efficiently....... could see that concept used to pump in warm air in instead

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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by Stuart » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:18 pm

That's the kind of thing Coach. An outer sleeve to better use the generated heat. If only our exhaust pipes weren't so individual! I found a couple of pictures of the VW pipe here
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1365099512.867172.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1365099522.767725.jpg
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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by coachgeo » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:27 pm

you might need a second tube that only takes in ambient air then a valve on both the one from the heater box and and one for the cool box. This way you can vary the heat output by adding cool air input. Orrrr something simular

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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by Stuart » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:53 pm

If love to get that hot air up to the grips. The Tiger has what you'd think was more than adequate wind protection for the hands but I'm starting to think the finger tips still get so damn cold perhaps because they are at the point of the 'perfect storm', the turbulent air rolling back over top & bottom of the guards & meeting at the lever/finger area.
Maybe I'll try & blow some smoke over to prove that one :-)
Stuart. Honda NC700S, Ducati Monster M900, Toyota Corolla 1.4 Turbo Diesel. Favouring MPG over MPH.

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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by pietenpol2002 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:32 am

Most air-cooled aircraft engines pull heat from the muffler much like the VW. I have fond memories of hunting fox from the air with my old J-3 on skis in the winter with that pathetic "heater" keeping your left foot nice and toasty while the rest of your body was a block of ice. At least I wasn't the one who shot off the end of the prop. Anybody need a set of Federal skis for a Cub?
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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by Blunt Eversmoke » Fri May 24, 2013 7:21 pm

Either you go that route or

this one.

As soon as they've got the 15kw version ready to for sale, that is. With a 20 hp engine generating 15 or so hp worth of steam should be a breeze. Don't even need a big battery - just route the electricity to a motor, say, in the front wheel.

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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by BertTrack » Sat May 25, 2013 12:55 am

That steam option will be too heavy. It's not just the turbine but also the condensor, pumps and steam generator that you need to have. Plus water and a good water conditioning system.
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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by Blunt Eversmoke » Sat May 25, 2013 8:52 am

BertTrack wrote:That steam option will be too heavy. It's not just the turbine but also the condensor, pumps and steam generator that you need to have. Plus water and a good water conditioning system.
On a liquid-cooled engine you already operate two of three components you mention, namely pump and condenser(radiator). The turbine only needs 200°C to operate - that means it does not even need that heavy a steam generator. Just pump the water from the cooling system into a sleeve around the exhaust, then work the pressure off in the turbine, then condense in the radiator (might need a bigger one), and back into the engine for cooling.

Although, a valid question is if the turbine could also operate on exhaust gas ( to keep temperature down, either water injection into intake manifold or steam injection from the cooling system into exhaust prior to turbine). Would operate at total water loss, of course, but save fuel, weight and complexity.

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Re: Using wasted Hot Air

Post by BertTrack » Sat May 25, 2013 12:04 pm

That pump (from vaccuum to overpressure) would need to be controlled so it will have to be electric. Adding extra hardware. Your steam production needs to be superheated steam And the turbine needs to be packed in insulation. Also they want a vaccuum to operate the turbine on the condensor side. That radiator will need to be doubled in side atleast and build to handle large amounts of gas on the intake side. You'll also need someway of bleeding off the air.

This stuff is nice as an idea. BMW has had a car with such a system i believe.

But it adds too much junk in the trunk ;)
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