cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Doing stuff with air...

Moderators: Dan J, Stuart, Diesel Dave, Crazymanneil

Post Reply
klondikekid
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:25 pm
Location: Canada

cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by klondikekid » Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:18 pm

I seen some talk about using diesel fuel through the turbo water jacket for cooling instead of hooking up to cooling system, I have the hoses and fittings to go to the water jacket but just running my fuel line in and out of the turbo would be alot easier, and any benefits? yay or nay? Has anyone here got real world experince doing this, how did it work? problems?

BertTrack
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:53 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by BertTrack » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:19 pm

Cooling jacket? That must be a huge turbo!?

Heating your fuel too much may cause an early burn. And would make the engine more vulnerable to knocking.
Image

klondikekid
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:25 pm
Location: Canada

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by klondikekid » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:36 am

No, it's very small turbo, Garrett GT12 it's just a baby, good quality, compared to the junk on flea bay from china, that doesn't have a jacket. I can't remember where i seen the thread on here, but there was talk of doing this or having done this and the talk sounded like it's been done before, I'll see if I can find the thread. Valid points though BertTrack.

User avatar
coachgeo
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:00 am
Location: USA Ohio, Above Cincinnati, Close to Dayton

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by coachgeo » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:34 am

are you talking about cooling the actual turbo or cooling the air from turbo (intercooler).
Last edited by coachgeo on Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

UAofE
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:39 am
Location: Denver, CO USA

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by UAofE » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:23 am

Diesels do not need the turbo cooled. The lubricating oil cools it plenty.
2006 Honda Rebel
Kubota OC95, Comet 44C/44D

klondikekid
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:25 pm
Location: Canada

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by klondikekid » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:15 pm

Yes, I'm talking about the liquid cooling in the water jacket of the turbo. I have seen a lot of talk back and forth on the web about not hooking up the cooling lines if the turbo has them, makes sense to me if you have the cooling jacket to use it, hot shut off's, coking the oil, bearing life etc. might be ok without, but this turbo cost me aprox. $1000 brand new...hate to find out the hard way, especially if it was designed to be cooled. Done some looking around on the web, and it seems that room temp. is best for diesel fuel temp. going into the engine, makes sense, just thought I might be missing something after reading about someone running their fuel line thru the turbo instead of water/antifreeze. Some new diesel trucks have a cooler in the fuel line running back to the tank, after going thru the pump and parts the fuel heading back can get quite hot. I know gas engines like cold fuel, I just thought there might be something to be gained from warm/hot diesel fuel, quicker burn, better burn, but no dice.

UAofE
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:39 am
Location: Denver, CO USA

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by UAofE » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:59 am

klondikekid wrote:hot shut off's, coking the oil, bearing life etc
Not an issue with diesels.
Diesel idle exhaust temp is under 300f. Gas engines idle around 500f.
this turbo cost me aprox. $1000 brand new...hate to find out the hard way, especially if it was designed to be cooled.
If it has a water jacket its designed for either a gas engine or high performance.
Some new diesel trucks have a cooler in the fuel line running back to the tank
Because the common rail system pumps the fuel up to 30,000psi or higher. The leakoff and return from that system is very hot. Fuel over 180f can reduce the life of the injection system.
I just thought there might be something to be gained from warm/hot diesel fuel, quicker burn, better burn
Hot fuel is less dense. If you tune the system to not smoke when the engine is hot you will have lack of power when its cool.
2006 Honda Rebel
Kubota OC95, Comet 44C/44D

klondikekid
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:25 pm
Location: Canada

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by klondikekid » Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:20 am

Garrett_White_Paper_01_Water_Cooling.pdf
(601.4 KiB) Downloaded 99 times
My turbo is a garrett GT12 with water jacket, here's a little info from garrett, they mention temp. for oil breakdown etc. I see what your saying, 300 deg.at "idle", but a with a heat soak at shutdown from a aggressive ride... just seems like cheap insurance to plumb the lines,I don't mind the work installing them, A lot of talk on diesel truck sites about idling a min. or so before shut down to stabilize/lower temp to prevent early turbo failure. lot of people say don't worry about hooking up the water lines, then lot say worry about it. I'll go with Garrett's recommended install. If not hooked up, it would be a good idea to keep a close eye on oil for brake down, and regular oil changes of course.

BertTrack
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:53 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by BertTrack » Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:33 pm

In their piece they are refering to "This may seem low considering that
exhaust gas temperatures can get as high as 1800°F (980°C) in a typical high-output turbocharged
gasoline engine,"

A gasoline engine.

But it won't hurt to cool the sucker. Mind you with some taking care a turbo on a diesel will last as long as the engine does. (If it's designed correctly) (Speaking from experience)
Image

User avatar
coachgeo
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:00 am
Location: USA Ohio, Above Cincinnati, Close to Dayton

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by coachgeo » Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:09 am

am curious how much; if any, coolant capacity and/or improved air flow radiator you will have to increase to accommodate for cooling the engine and the turbo

klondikekid
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:25 pm
Location: Canada

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by klondikekid » Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:53 am

1660753_10152621952262166_803779657_n.jpg
Apr  5 pics from Camera 120.jpg
image177.jpg
I'm going to try running the bike with the radiator I have now, it's bigger than the rad on my Suzuki GT750 triple, and my Suzuki has never gotten hot even in slow heavy traffic in the summer. I threw a couple pics of dethmachinefab's bikes for comparison, and lord knows my bike is wimpy stock compared to his screamers.
Attachments
0_8004_zoom.jpg

User avatar
coachgeo
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:00 am
Location: USA Ohio, Above Cincinnati, Close to Dayton

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by coachgeo » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:00 am

Smart move. Keep us updated

UAofE
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:39 am
Location: Denver, CO USA

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by UAofE » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:18 pm

Diesels have been running non-water-cooled turbos for over 50 years. The Mercedes 300D wouldn't have got its reputation for reliability if it was cooking turbos. Its common to find them with their original 30+ year old turbo.
2006 Honda Rebel
Kubota OC95, Comet 44C/44D

klondikekid
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:25 pm
Location: Canada

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by klondikekid » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:14 am

UAofE wrote:Diesels have been running non-water-cooled turbos for over 50 years. The Mercedes 300D wouldn't have got its reputation for reliability if it was cooking turbos. Its common to find them with their original 30+ year old turbo.
True, point taken.

BertTrack
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:53 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: cooling turbo with diesel inst. of water?

Post by BertTrack » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:46 am

Also i think the gasoline turbo's will be designed with higher temperatures in mind (obviously) but this also means the exhaust turbine is designed for lower density higher flowrate gasses. That may seriously hurt it's performance on a diesel engine.
Image

Post Reply